Anyone in Hartlepool - what on earth is going on

[Purplecatshopaholic]

Genuine question. (Apologies if this is in the wrong place, I don’t post much). I’m Scottish and in Scotland, and I am constantly aware these days of how different the views are of Westminster up here, to across the border sometimes. We also have our own Labour Party leader up here. But really? Is Keir Starmer that bad? Are other parties not available? Who on earth is still voting for Boris…? Any WHY?

I would rather vote for an independent that promised me straight carrots than any of the Labour, greens, Lib Dem’s candidates who do not represent me as an adult female. I’m sick of being called phobic about anything I say. I’m sick of the erasure of lesbians and the crap shouted at women for asking for a born woman to do our smears or intimate care for my mother. We need an honest discussion about what 51% of the population want from the other 49% and not to be ruled by 0.1% of the population who are mainly white, male and middle class.

Labour supporters actively hate Blair. The only Labour PM who has won back to back for them. Ignore Iraq - that does not count trying to put food on the table in Hartlepool. Blair offered hope - he sold aspiration. Same as Thatcher. Same as Boris. Blair did not carp about the last lot or say "they're bad vote so for me". He offered something. Someone else said this country likes centrists (sorry can't find who). She, or he, is right. Labour need a charismatic centrist who LIKES everybody and offers hope. They missed the chance with David Milliband and more so with Andy Burnham. The real question is not why people in Hartlepool don't vote Labour any more but why Labour thinks it can get in just moaning about the Tories or offering far left stuff that's never, ever been successful here. Added to that - there's all the woke stuff of the last five years. Labour don't stand a chance pretty much anywhere at the moment.

Have you seen the map of the Dudley local election for example??

twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1390603750465748992

@mooming

So to everyone who says Labour needs to appeal to the masses - what would that look like? What policies do they need in place?

I think if Starmer seriously wants to be PM, he needs a clean break. Stop trying to appease Bromentum by keeping Corbynites in the shadow cabinet. Nothing he does will win them over anyway. Be strong and lead. Lay it down to the Party “Look, if we’re going to win, we need to appeal to a broad church, we need to recognise that student union and 1970s TU policies aren’t relevant anymore. Most people don’t want to work in a mine or see rich people hanging from lampposts.”. As a centre-right party, we might not be ideologically perfect, but we have a chance of winning and actually changing things for the better once we’re in. So either you come with me or you leave”.

And follow through on that. Swift and decisive action for Labour members who bring the party into disrepute - including some of the posters on here. If you call voters bigots or mock them for not being enlightened, you’re out. Same as if you worked in Tesco and took the piss out of a customer. If you hammer on the windows at a fringe meeting for DV survivors, you’re out. Show you’re willing to make difficult decisions. And do stop with all this TWAW nonsense or you’ll end up like Jo bloody Swinson.

@IntermittentParps

The sad thing is that these voters seem to think that Conservatives will create [jobs]. Shall we take a bet on that now? This is what I can't understand. I totally get all the other arguments that people in Hartlepool are angry at Labour's stance on trans issues/being patronised about being working-class/Brexit and all the other reasons put forward here. But really, honestly, what jobs are the Tories going to create in Hartlepool? I would genuinely like to hear opinions on this.

Um, well, the first, and to be largest, Freeport in the U.K. in Teeside maybe. The Teesside Freeport set to create, up to 18,000 skilled, good-quality jobs within five years, boost the local economy by £3.4billion and support offshore wind, clean energy, chemicals and process, and advanced manufacturing sectors. It will increase inward investment into Teesside, Darlington and Hartlepool by over £1.4 billion. I mean sure, you might believe that will never happen, but, are you suggesting the people of Hartlepool should have voted against that and in favour of what Labour were offering? Which was what , exactly?

this threads posts are typical of the condescension heaped on the heads of traditional labour voters. Telling people they are stupid and ignorant, racist and anti european, will really bring them on side.

@PostcardofaBeautifulBeach
Yes I would uptick your post if I could! Except for the Boris paragraph: though I can see the truth in it, I can't bear watching the man anymore.

Personally, I think Labour needs to represent remainers (48% of the electorate) more effectively. OK, the UK voted to leave and we have, but many many people voted against it and it was a narrow majority.
What about the estimated 30% of Labour voters who voted Leave? Should they just be told they were wrong and aren't wanted?

Those of you accusing "the Left" of using vitriol and sneering. That's neither. It's usually despair. The Tories have been in power for over a decade. They've inflicted terrible damage on the UK, not least with Brexit. They've been divisive, and encouraged fascism at levels not seen for decades.

They've starved people, and encouraged others to consider any needing support as a scrounger. All the while, lying about everything, and refusing to be held accountable for *anything. So yes, despair that anyone could be stupid enough to vote for them.

@MmeLaraque

Those of you accusing "the Left" of using vitriol and sneering. That's neither. It's usually despair. The Tories have been in power for over a decade. They've inflicted terrible damage on the UK, not least with Brexit. They've been divisive, and encouraged fascism at levels not seen for decades.

They've starved people, and encouraged others to consider any needing support as a scrounger. All the while, lying about everything, and refusing to be held accountable for *anything. So yes, despair that anyone could be stupid enough to vote for them.

You’re still going to need an attractive, positive path out.

A centrist party that shows opportunity gets votes.

Labour can’t get together a cohesive approach and it’s damaging them hugely.

@ShoppingPrecinctPrincess

It's quite the opposite of self-pitying *@ShoppingPrecinctPrincess*

It's a 'go fuck yourself, you know nothing about me' response. And I am allowed to think what I want response.

And I'm allowed to think it's self-pitying drivel. I's all 'wah wah I'm the one who's truly being oppressed'. I mean knock yourself out but it's clear what it is.

You seem to think you know what I feel

I don't feel oppressed. In fact I often eye roll at the 'professionally oppressed' lefties

I am very very very rarely offended by anything - I must be sometimes, but can't think of anything right now

There is no wah wah wah, I am just getting on with my life. It's so odd that that is how you interpret what I said.

Labour care more about their twitter profiles and mistake likes for votes. Most people couldn't give a rats chuff about all this woke chat, they just want jobs, decent housing and decent schools.

@TatianaBis

You’ve still failed to grasp the point of that post *@GlassBoxSpectacular*

I don't believe I have.

But please do explain in greater detail, and in words that mean what they say, as that might be useful to others on the thread.

What do you believe is the reason why many (though not all) defecting Labour voters have transferred their vote to the Conservatives rather than The Green Party or another party (you mentioned the Monster Raving Loony party, but satirical parties don't appear on the ballot in the majority of constituencies: in mine, we had Con, Lab, Lib Dem, Green & one independent, so not 'hilarious' protest options available).
You must have given some thought to the reasons why in Hartlepool (and elsewhere) many voters decided that, of the available options, a Conservative vote best represented them, and you're quite emphatic that their beliefs are mistaken, so what do you think was the impetus for them putting their cross in that particular box? .

@MmeLaraque

Those of you accusing "the Left" of using vitriol and sneering. That's neither. It's usually despair. The Tories have been in power for over a decade. They've inflicted terrible damage on the UK, not least with Brexit. They've been divisive, and encouraged fascism at levels not seen for decades.

They've starved people, and encouraged others to consider any needing support as a scrounger. All the while, lying about everything, and refusing to be held accountable for *anything. So yes, despair that anyone could be stupid enough to vote for them.

I honestly don't know what planet you are living on

Fascism?

The only authoritarianism I can see is coming from the Left when the Tell Me How I Should Think

@BagORats in what sense?

Traditionally these skilled people have built up businesses, maybe without the need for university; often living in their home area, making grandparent help with childcare possible, doing up their own homes economically, and generally often having things sussed and building up to a position of self-sufficiency and self-reliance. That could be the reason why people are voting Conservative and feeling a resonance with the values, in the absence of a lucid message from the Labour leaders, who don't want to be Jeremy Corbyn, but don't know what they do want to be.

I could see that would be why people voted for a previous generation of Tories. But those small traders probably always did vote Tory. I can't see for the life of me why they vote for a party with the likes of Johnson (Fuck Business) at the helm. I doubt whether Johnson would know how to hang a sheet of wallpaper, and as for childcare, wasn't he asking the party to stump up for a nanny? I don't recall Stanley Johnson being asked to step up to doing grandparent duties.

What sort of business did Dido Harding build up?

I noticed the Saudi trip on his wiki page.

[quote MmeLaraque]@MarshaBradyo

It is correct. There is *no excuse for voting Tory at this stage. None. They've had ten years to show you what they're capable of, and they have. So idiots vote for more of the same.

Voting Tory means you've either a huge bank balance, and are independently wealthy, or you're an idiot.

A look at your bank balance will confirm which.[/quote]
Voting Tory means you've either a huge bank balance, and are independently wealthy, or you're an idiot.

Or. God Forbid! Voting Tory means you have a different opinion

Describing people as "Lefties" in that sneering way is one thing I don't understand. Presumably most people here work for a living, or are parents. In which case those Lefties have been responsible for your employment rights, the facts that your kids can go to school, and the fact you're allowed to vote at all.

@GlassBoxSpectacular

Because they deludedly believe the Tories actually do represent them, when actually they’re ‘arseholes’ who ‘don’t give a shit’ about them as I said.

Why put up a total anti Brexit person too?
All too much negative baggage for right now.

What do you believe is the reason why many (though not all) defecting Labour voters have transferred their vote to the Conservatives rather than The Green Party or another party (you mentioned the Monster Raving Loony party, but satirical parties don't appear on the ballot in the majority of constituencies: in mine, we had Con, Lab, Lib Dem, Green & one independent, so not 'hilarious' protest options available)

I was a Labour party member up until a few years ago. Northern, from Thatcher hating area.

I voted Tory at the last election for the first time.

The Green Party are just another ideological driven party who are tripping over themselves to be woke saviours, they have absolutely no practical application in my everyday.

The Tories are more centrist, offer some optimism, love our country (and are not ashamed of it), they attempt to speak truths about things like immigration and welfare (since i have grown up I can see how perhaps there is such a thing as welfare dependency and it doesn't actually always do what is intended). They are just more realistic about the world we live in - it's full of imperfections and human transgression but we still strive to improve things rather than sitting there moaning about how everything is someone else's fault

@IndigoC

Time for Lisa Nandy as leader.

Lisa Nandy who believes men who rape women should be housed in the female prison estate if they say they identity as a women. You have to be kidding!

God some people REALLY don't listen do they. The dislike for "woke" identity politics has been covered numerous times on this thread.

For those at the back, again - wokeness in this instance is an obsession with identity politics, in particular trans rights over and above women's rights. Women, you know who are 51% of the population.

People don't like being called stupid, or phobic, being told their lived experience is irrelevant whilst others matters. Women over-ridingly want single sex spaces, womens refuges, prisons, sports. They also want people to be honest about the situation. The adoption of self id under the radar has meant many women now no longer trust crime statistics or news reports and most importantly they don't trust politicians.

Women's rights matter and just telling women to get over it and stop being bigots hasn't and won't work.

But yes just to echo what many others have said on this and other threads. Its the sneering, the not listening, the repeated calls for re-education so that the right views are parroted that puts people off. I'm a lifetime labour supporter and member who wouldn't go near them with a bargepole now.

Not that that matters as being told that unless I believed male rapists belong in the female estate because they identity as female I should leave the party.......so I did.

People on the Left at the moment seem very under-developed, psychologically, at the moment

They don't believe in ordinary. Think every one of them is special, deserving of some 'higher' status. It is so child-like.

It's OK to be ordinary. The Tories represent that more than any other party - just offer jobs and leave people to get on with their lives - up to you whether you want to strive more than the next person