Anyone in Hartlepool - what on earth is going on

[Purplecatshopaholic]

Genuine question. (Apologies if this is in the wrong place, I don’t post much). I’m Scottish and in Scotland, and I am constantly aware these days of how different the views are of Westminster up here, to across the border sometimes. We also have our own Labour Party leader up here. But really? Is Keir Starmer that bad? Are other parties not available? Who on earth is still voting for Boris…? Any WHY?

@YouJustFoldItIn

Although losing after 57 years is worth talking about.

Actually I cut and pasted that in my post above, but it's incorrect - it's about 47 years isn't it?

Maybe I misheard

Still 47 years then losing

"There was a thread about Brexit soon after the referendum when a poster genuinely thought voters should take a test before they were allowed to vote."

Well, I think the 42% turnout sort of tells you that for many, the Referendum was the only time they ever voted, and the fact the most googled term on June 24th 2016 was 'what is the EU?'

This is why I think there should have been a simple test regarding 'do you have a clue?' - prior to being permitted a vote in that referendum.

Now, I can entirely see why that small turnout voted Tory. Because they Got Brexit Done. Because the Labour candidate was a Remainer. Because their jobs have been artificially 'saved', for now, via a scheme so expensive and ongoing (til September) and so socialist it would have had Marx rolling in his mausoleum. Because many people don't care about sleaze and would also give jobs to supportive mates. Because the worst Covid handling in Europe forced the government into massive spending leading to mass vaccination (and the perception that if we'd stayed in the EU we'd have had the same issues as the EU have had- not true, but perception is all).

I am still mystified as to in what way anyone could believe the Tories represent the ordinary working person, but then, the same people believed £350m a week to the NHS, so there you go.

I voted for her. Best of a bad bunch. But given the amount of people in this thread talking about 'wokeness' and 'identity politics', do you think they'll accept a BAME female leader?

This is either a willful misunderstanding of the concerns about identity politics or you are beyond help.

[quote MmeLaraque]@TeacupDrama

Brexit is shite. It's the most stupid thing the UK has done in a very long time.

The Tories are absolutely laughing their socks off at plebs voting for them. They know they can kick the shit out of *anyone, and those who vote for them will ignore that because the media told them that Labour is just worse. The Tories have had over a decade to sort the mess out. They haven't. Everything the UK is living with right now is firmly the Tory party's responsibility. No one else's.

All the complaints about "woke" policies: so people don't like their prejudices being pointed out to them.

The wanting a police officer to turn up is risible. The TORIES are the ones in power. They're the ones who've cut the Police numbers, and other services, yet people have voted for them (and therefore more of the same, yet again.

Don't want to be called a thick, racist pleb? Don't behave like one.

Stop believing the shite that refugees get a massive house and lots of money (They don't: it's shared accommodation and £37 a week in vouchers.)

Stop voting Tory, and stop accusing people of being "woke" because they do behave like decent human beings, and want other people to be treated like human beings, too.[/quote]
No stop telling us what we think first as it’s not even correct.

@Miljea

"There was a thread about Brexit soon after the referendum when a poster genuinely thought voters should take a test before they were allowed to vote."

Well, I think the 42% turnout sort of tells you that for many, the Referendum was the only time they ever voted, and the fact the most googled term on June 24th 2016 was 'what is the EU?'

This is why I think there should have been a simple test regarding 'do you have a clue?' - prior to being permitted a vote in that referendum.

Now, I can entirely see why that small turnout voted Tory. Because they Got Brexit Done. Because the Labour candidate was a Remainer. Because their jobs have been artificially 'saved', for now, via a scheme so expensive and ongoing (til September) and so socialist it would have had Marx rolling in his mausoleum. Because many people don't care about sleaze and would also give jobs to supportive mates. Because the worst Covid handling in Europe forced the government into massive spending leading to mass vaccination (and the perception that if we'd stayed in the EU we'd have had the same issues as the EU have had- not true, but perception is all).

I am still mystified as to in what way anyone could believe the Tories represent the ordinary working person, but then, the same people believed £350m a week to the NHS, so there you go.

This. They believe Tory bullshit. They choose to look the other way. Then complain when people tell them they're being stupid.

Have contacts in the NE though not Hartlepool. They all say they feel labour did nothing for the area over decades.

It's not dissimilar to sentiment in Sco tland that caused a lurch to SNP i think.

Looking at the Hartlepool candidates this am: the doctor ( labour) looks good on paper to me but had some form for unpopular decision regarding local medical services. Has previously been a local MP, Was he not well liked perhaps?

Conservative Winner focussed on positive policy on ECONOMY and JOBS - dunno how achievable that is but she is selling hope. (plus sounded on video quite pleasant and I at least could relate to the lockdown hair)

It is however part of the wider struggle of the Labour party. I don't think a move to the left will help (understatement!) but they need to find a hopeful message a majority can relate to.

In my view Labour and labour militant supporters - come across very badly to the average 'not massively political' person (and I include myself in that category'. Vitriolic and sneering - dismissive of anyone who doesn't share their views as racist or 'thick'. The narrative is depressing. There is no optimism. It is almost as though they are ashamed to be British and are ashamed of Britain. There is an undercurrent of vindictiveness.

It is such a shame. The labour of my childhood did not come across like this. They genuinely came across as a kinder, more thoughtful party. Genuinely looking out for the underdog.

Boris for all of his faults, is optimistic, energetic and (whether or not it is genuine) conveys the feeling that he is backing Britain, that he likes the British and that he wants to restore pride. This is appealing.

Prior to the ref we had the UKIP vote. Where did that vote go?

Good point.

Senned election here had loads of smaller parties on ballet this time - I don't think I've ever had such a long form before which I took to indicate increased dissatisfaction with all of the main parties - but I don't know how they did here yet or where the UKIP vote here went.

I suppose it's certainly possible it went Convervative in Hartlepool.

This. They believe Tory bullshit. They choose to look the other way. Then complain when people tell them they're being stupid.

No you just refuse to look at your own faults and it’s losing you votes and will continue to.

@IndigoC

Time for Lisa Nandy as leader.

Lmfao Labour need a decent leader.,she is not it.

@MarshaBradyo

It is correct. There is *no excuse for voting Tory at this stage. None. They've had ten years to show you what they're capable of, and they have. So idiots vote for more of the same.

Voting Tory means you've either a huge bank balance, and are independently wealthy, or you're an idiot.

A look at your bank balance will confirm which.

@NotDavidTennant

I couldn't give a shit what BJ's flat looks like. I absolutely do care, though, about who is paying for it and what they are going to get in return. Why would anyone pay £58000 without expecting something back? That's the issue.

Most ordinary voters are just not politically engaged enough to care about this kind of thing though. Unless Johnson is caught red handed with a brown envelope of cash then it's too abstract an issue for them to care about.

I agree.

@katnyps It was during the Napoleonic wars in the early 1800’s, a boat was shipwrecked at Hartlepool. The people had never seen a monkey or a Frenchman before, so as they couldn’t understand it they assumed it was a French spy and hanged it (hung it, I’m never sure?!)

If we define ‘woke’ as ‘alert to social and racial injustice’ - what is different about ‘woke’ from old Labour values?
Do you miss racism or something?
Oh look, someone with a slightly cleverer way of calling you a thick racist. Except it reminds me of primary school playground comebacks like ‘I know what you are, but what am I?’
No, those using the word here are not defining woke as alert to social and racial injustice. They’re defining it as divisive identity politics. But you know that.

@ShoppingPrecinctPrincess

It's quite the opposite of self-pitying *@ShoppingPrecinctPrincess*

It's a 'go fuck yourself, you know nothing about me' response. And I am allowed to think what I want response.

And I'm allowed to think it's self-pitying drivel. I's all 'wah wah I'm the one who's truly being oppressed'. I mean knock yourself out but it's clear what it is.

Love the way people like @ShoppingPrecinctPrincess keep demonstrating why Labour will remain unelectable.

You keep stuffing you fingers in your ears when people tell you why they don't vote for you. You keep telling yourself your are right despite huge electoral defeats. You keep on.

It's the hangover from Brexit. It's f*cked the country up so much. The Tory party are now a thinly disguised version of the BNP..BJ has kicked out all of the moderates and they're on the way to going full Trump.

What are the Tories policies exactly? They talk a good game, but don't follow through on any of it. Johnson said he had a plan to sort out social care..so where is it?

BJ says what people want to hear so I bet foreign travel will be back on next week...see also Christmas and opening the pubs.

There's a tower block on fire in East London, the same cladding...four years after Grenfell and nothing has been done.

Say what you like about Keir Stamer..he wouldn't have given £106,000 of taxpayers money to his mistress while his wife was fighting cancer. and yet people love the bloke..I don't get it.

You’ve still failed to grasp the point of that post @GlassBoxSpectacular

I think a section of society who have every reason to believe in business are those involved in the trades: plumbing, electricians, builders, mechanics, scaffolding, glazing, roofing, mechanics. Quite a lot of activity continued under lockdown: necessary electrical repairs, even shed delivery, and decorating - and more, under the latest lockdown when many had built up surplus funds and wanted to spend it on their homes. Traditionally these skilled people have built up businesses, maybe without the need for university; often living in their home area, making grandparent help with childcare possible, doing up their own homes economically, and generally often having things sussed and building up to a position of self-sufficiency and self-reliance. That could be the reason why people are voting Conservative and feeling a resonance with the values, in the absence of a lucid message from the Labour leaders, who don't want to be Jeremy Corbyn, but don't know what they do want to be.

I don't want to vote conservative and I believe in collective responsibility rather than individualism.
And I am surprised that people are pleased with the government performance, in spite of an unimpressive and unfocused response by the government:to Covid, and a leader who seems to be criticized for his skills and character by other Tory politicians who have reason to know him well

This. They believe Tory bullshit. They choose to look the other way. Then complain when people tell them they're being stupid.

Imagine, people not liking being called stupid, how stupid of them.....

So many posters have used the buzz word ‘woke’ to describe why Labour did badly in Hartlepool, without actually explaining what they mean by the word ‘woke’

They could start by supporting women, and protecting womens spaces and womens lives. I'm not anti trans, but I am pro real women. If i hear the word cis I will explode

@musingloud, thankfully I don't live in England and I don't vote Labour. I'm just an interested bystander watching England become ever more insular.

Why aren't people voting for Labour? Let's think....

If you call your 'normal' traditional voters, thick, uneducated, racists, gammons, flag shaggers, colonialists, turkeys, white privileged, cis-gendered, terfs, and cervix havers.....

Don't be surprised if they're not that enthusiastic to vote for you.

Prior to the ref we had the UKIP vote. Where did that vote go?

There were also a lot of UKIP councillors, voted in in 2016/17 who will now almost certainly have been replaced by Tories. That to me tells you what the Tory Party has come. A party which no longer has room for Grieve, Rory Stewart, Nick Boles, Sarah Wollaston and Heidi Allen to name some off the top of my head, but puts Patel, Truss, and Johnson himself in positions of power.