Anyone in Hartlepool - what on earth is going on

[Purplecatshopaholic]

Genuine question. (Apologies if this is in the wrong place, I don’t post much). I’m Scottish and in Scotland, and I am constantly aware these days of how different the views are of Westminster up here, to across the border sometimes. We also have our own Labour Party leader up here. But really? Is Keir Starmer that bad? Are other parties not available? Who on earth is still voting for Boris…? Any WHY?

@Peregrina

‘Boris really cares about us, he won’t let us down’

So the first group he shafted with his Brexit Deal were the fishermen - the very ones who had been the poster boys for how wonderful Brexit was going to be.

Who will he let down next?

Once he has them in the bag and they've served their purpose he's happy to throw them under the bus.

Why are pp still mentioning Brexit? It's done and in political terms finished with.

I was a remainer but I agree Brexit is done -it has caused problems many and varried and at all levels and they will need to be sorted out or lived with or lead to futher changes.

I think it's being mention for Hartlepool becuase they put a vocal remainer candidate in area that voted big for leave - which is consistent and illustrative of their fuck you stupid people we know better vibe they current seem to give off.

Don't think there's much point worrying about the strategy that will win Hartlepool - it's just one of more than 400 wards around the country. This is a today-only argument

This is true; however local elections have historically been a opportunity for giving the incumbent government a good kicking, and after a year or so of incompetence and corrruption you'd think this would have been another such time

The fact that it's not happened shows once again just what a mess Labour are in, if only they were listening ... but sadly they're not, and the rout continues

Time for Lisa Nandy as leader.

Don't think there's much point worrying about the strategy that will win Hartlepool - it's just one of more than 400 wards around the country. This is a today-only argument

Although losing after 57 years is worth talking about.

The fact that so many people are cryarsing about 'wokeness' is one reason why I stick to BMN these days. Starmer is white, for fuck's sake. He's not 'woke'. He's about as centrist as you can get and he doesn't CARE about identity politics. He's not even pro-trans.

PS The Tories do not give a shit about women's rights, but then this is Mumsnet where the only issue affecting women is the existence of trans people and not, I dunno, DV or FGM or any of the other things we have to worry about. If we magically eradicated every single trans person from this country, things would not drastically improve for women.

Brexit is done. It's over with.

@BuggerBognor why is it OK for the right/centre to call people 'woke', 'snowflakes', 'traitors', 'soyboys', 'cucks', 'beta males', 'Remoaners' and tell people 'if you don't like it, get out of the country'? Why are conservatives allowed to be as rude as they want and call names? Why are the rules different?

@BrightYellowDaffodil Starmer is saying those things? Really? How far right are Labour going to have to move? Because it's not working.

@randomlyLostInWales

Why are pp still mentioning Brexit? It's done and in political terms finished with.

I was a remainer but I agree Brexit is done -it has caused problems many and varried and at all levels and they will need to be sorted out or lived with or lead to futher changes.

I think it's being mention for Hartlepool becuase they put a vocal remainer candidate in area that voted big for leave - which is consistent and illustrative of their fuck you stupid people we know better vibe they current seem to give off.

Prior to the ref we had the UKIP vote. Where did that vote go?

The Brexit effect is somewhat relevant here.

It has to be noted that many people voted for Brexit for DOMESTIC national and local issues NOT european matters.

These issues still exist in no small part so the reasons remain highly relevant and the referendum did not resolve them.

Because the labour MP went into the election with virtually no policies or actions and I've heard Jack shit from labour for months and months.

[quote TatianaBis]@GlassBoxSpectacular

I haven’t assumed that Labour voters defecting to Tories don’t feel represented by the Tories, but they are not, nonetheless.[/quote]
But that's exactly what you stated defecting Labour voters are saying:

"But to say Labour doesn’t represent me so I will vote for another party that doesn’t represent me either who are even bigger arseholes who give even less of a shit about me - that makes no sense whatsoever."

And you've decided, on their behalf, that "they are not [represented by the Tories], nonetheless". What criteria are you using to determine the degree of representation someone feels with regard to any particular party? And what makes you so sure that you know better than they do whether Party X, party Y or Party Z best accords with their perspective?

@IndigoC

Time for Lisa Nandy as leader.

I voted for her. Best of a bad bunch. But given the amount of people in this thread talking about 'wokeness' and 'identity politics', do you think they'll accept a BAME female leader?

@Looneytune253

I'm horrified. Coming from the north surely there's nothing worse than voting Tory

Exactly

@GlassBoxSpectacular

😂 Oh bless, you took that literally.

Of course they don’t say that, but that’s the reality.

Although losing after 57 years is worth talking about.

Of course. But it shouldn't be viewed in isolation. Even if Labour had fielded a different candidate in Hartlepool, one who was more in touch with the views of the people there, and he'd managed to do enough doorstep work to convince people to keep Hartlepool Labour by the skin of its teeth, it would not have done much to change where the Labour party are as a whole.

But the fact that Labour have lost Hartlepool after 57 years is very much worth discussing because it's a big, neon flashing sign with accompanying klaxon of just how far down the wrong path they've gone and just how out of touch with working class people they really are.

@ShoppingPrecinctPrincess

The Labour party tell me I am racist (white privilege and do not want unlimited immigration), transphobic (I believe men cannot be women), colonialist (I don't believe we should rip down historical statues), offensive (cannot have free debate), privileged (because I have had a stable family background - that one is particularly confusing as that is what they claim they want for everyone) and also that women need a leg up to get on.

This is the most self-pitying nonsense.

It's quite the opposite of self-pitying @ShoppingPrecinctPrincess

It's a 'go fuck yourself, you know nothing about me' response. And I am allowed to think what I want response.

This sums it up perfectly, I think:

Right, so we’ve had that the people of Hartlepool are thick, racist, xenophobic (I assume because of the alleged monkey hanging over 200 years ago).

Maybe, just maybe, it’s because Labour don’t actually represent ‘normal’ people anymore. As a whole, Labour come across as smug idiots who think they’re better than all us racist, transphobic fools.

I literally never voted for anyone other than Labour from the day I could vote until the last general election. I cannot vote for a party who wants to give women’s rights away to any man who channels Shania Twain. So all these people saying ‘I don’t think trans issues are the reason why people are turning away from Labour’ are wrong, that’s exactly why I didn’t vote for Labour, because they’re happy to let men with a fully intact penis into rape crisis centres, women’s domestic violence shelters, women’s prisons and women only hospital wards. They are shitting all over the most vulnerable women in order to prioritise mainly white middle aged men who ‘feel like a woman’.

I am fucking furious with what Labour has become.

What I would suggest is uncontrolled immigration impacted those already struggling for work and the crime it brings.

'uncontrolled immigration' (by which I assume you mean at least partly EU membership) doesn't impact work for others.
Crime is a massively nuanced and complex issue. It's not as simple as saying people from other countries 'bring' it.
I dislike the sneering on here and in the country at large about Hartlepool/other northern or working-class areas being thick/turkeys voting for Xmas/led by right-wing media etc.
But remarks like this do not support the argument that these areas voted Tory for thoughtful and well-informed reasons.

@KevinTheGoat
Saying what we are thinking

It's quite the opposite of self-pitying @ShoppingPrecinctPrincess

It's a 'go fuck yourself, you know nothing about me' response. And I am allowed to think what I want response.

And I'm allowed to think it's self-pitying drivel. I's all 'wah wah I'm the one who's truly being oppressed'. I mean knock yourself out but it's clear what it is.

@6Helen7

Because ordinary working people don't feel that the Labour Party represent them any more. My grandfather would be turning in his grave.

I think maybe a couple of things, there are many people much older than the general MN demographic who remember the horrors of a pseudo-Marxist 'Labour' government, 60s style, and don't want it again. The other thing is that I personally don't know the local situation in Hartlepool, maybe there are some factors there too.

Although losing after 57 years is worth talking about.

Actually I cut and pasted that in my post above, but it's incorrect - it's about 47 years isn't it?

@risefromyourgrave
Monkey hanging?? I don't want to Google that!!

I couldn't give a shit what BJ's flat looks like.
I absolutely do care, though, about who is paying for it and what they are going to get in return. Why would anyone pay £58000 without expecting something back? That's the issue.

Most ordinary voters are just not politically engaged enough to care about this kind of thing though. Unless Johnson is caught red handed with a brown envelope of cash then it's too abstract an issue for them to care about.

[quote TatianaBis]@GlassBoxSpectacular

😂 Oh bless, you took that literally.

Of course they don’t say that, but that’s the reality.[/quote]
Indeed, I did take what you wrote as being the viewpoint you intended to express.

I was clearly incorrect in assuming that you meant what you wrote, rather than realising that when you attributed an intention to a segment of the voting population, you meant something different.

@TeacupDrama

Brexit is shite. It's the most stupid thing the UK has done in a very long time.

The Tories are absolutely laughing their socks off at plebs voting for them. They know they can kick the shit out of *anyone, and those who vote for them will ignore that because the media told them that Labour is just worse. The Tories have had over a decade to sort the mess out. They haven't. Everything the UK is living with right now is firmly the Tory party's responsibility. No one else's.

All the complaints about "woke" policies: so people don't like their prejudices being pointed out to them.

The wanting a police officer to turn up is risible. The TORIES are the ones in power. They're the ones who've cut the Police numbers, and other services, yet people have voted for them (and therefore more of the same, yet again.

Don't want to be called a thick, racist pleb? Don't behave like one.

Stop believing the shite that refugees get a massive house and lots of money (They don't: it's shared accommodation and £37 a week in vouchers.)

Stop voting Tory, and stop accusing people of being "woke" because they do behave like decent human beings, and want other people to be treated like human beings, too.