Anyone in Hartlepool - what on earth is going on

[Purplecatshopaholic]

Genuine question. (Apologies if this is in the wrong place, I don’t post much). I’m Scottish and in Scotland, and I am constantly aware these days of how different the views are of Westminster up here, to across the border sometimes. We also have our own Labour Party leader up here. But really? Is Keir Starmer that bad? Are other parties not available? Who on earth is still voting for Boris…? Any WHY?

It seems "go woke go broke" has broken the Labour Party too.

@MrsPsmalls

It's the bloody woke agenda. Which proper working class people i.e. people who actually go out and do a hard day's work for minimal money simply don't have time for. Not the 'working class' (self identified) people who work in media, or artisan bread making or art galleries - they love all that shite as they have the luxury of having the time and money to care. So Labour may still do okay in middle class areas, but they have completely lost the plot with the real working class.

But even if you are this most women are intelligent enough to not want that type if wokeness which harms them.

And if you’re a man I can’t see it being that attractive either.

Blair did better with metropolitan mc

@hamstersarse
Corbyn was a poor candidate. But he still polled more votes than Brown, Miliband and Blair x2. Despite being called a terrorist, anti-Semitic, a woman hater, a devil worshipper, a Russian spy etc etc.... and having significant bits of his party plotting against him from day one.
Can someone like Corbyn get elected in the UK? probably not. But the UK electorate is politically a lot more diverse than people like Mandelson would have you believe.

Labour is a party fuelled by hatred.

They don’t try to win over voters by listening to their concerns and creating policies to address those concerns. Instead they have formed an us vs them mentality.

We may not be entirely sure what they stand for but we know exactly what they stand against and if you don’t align exactly with their anti-stance then you’re one of “them” and part of the problem.

You will be verbally attacked, screamed at and derided publicly.

It’s almost impossible to align with all their various hatreds so you quickly become one of their hated.

That’s why their voters are dropping off. (They’re actually telling them not to vote for them in some cases, for example women who feel single sex spaces are important for women)

@6Helen7

Because ordinary working people don't feel that the Labour Party represent them any more. My grandfather would be turning in his grave.

But they Boris does?

Think ^

The Conservative party is right wing, and maybe further away from the centre than it has been for some time, but it isn't 'Far Right'

Agreed. And the Labour Party isn’t even particularly left wing either, but it’s very off putting to many of the more socially conservative people who used to make up a great deal of its voter base.

@MrsPsmalls
Which proper working class people i.e. people who actually go out and do a hard day's work for minimal money simply don't have time

IE poor people voting Tory. Well, of they want to put the Tories faux patriotism/hyped up “culture wars” above a better standard of living for themselves and their family.... that’s certainly their democratic right.

Urgh, the last thing we need is another Tony Blair

I'd strongly agree with you from a New Labour perspective, but the bottom line was that Blair had charisma and drive. They came up with something new and, while I profoundly disliked the spin and puffery of NL, it was different to what was being offered by the outdated and out-of-touch Pale, Male and Stale Tories of the time. Blair offered an alternative.

I think the original Labour party - very 'muscular' and seeing politics as a fight was bound to be dominated by the macho, beer and sandwiches, male trades unionist.

I think this also goes a long way to explain why Labour struggle. A lot of people don't want this, don't feel it represents them and therefore Union angle, which is a large part of Labour's identity, presents a problem. I actually believe that Unions are important but - having dealt with them at close quarters - I can't bear the hysteria and pig-headedness that they so often display.

Labour is two parties in one, and they are at odds with each other like two cats in a sack: the 'old Labour' of hard-left Unions and the 'modern Labour' that's centre-Left. What we really need is for a new centre-left party to be hived off and replace the smoking ruins of the Lib Dems. It's going to be a looooong time before the LDs are forgiven for the coalition omnishambles and in the meantime there isn't an alternative to the Tories or Labour.

The Conservative party is right wing, and maybe further away from the centre than it has been for some time, but it isn't 'Far Right'

No it’s not far right but his are you measuring the shift away from centre?

Some things such as size of state spend push it towards centre.

@Letsgetreadytocrumble

Because a significant portion of Labour still haven't figured out that calling people thick/stupid/bigoted/fascist/far right if they have an opinion outside of a pretty narrow set of views, is not a way to win votes. And that Twitter does not represent the electorate of the UK.

This sums it up nicely. I'm a bit of a floating voter, although mostly Conservative. I have become more left leaning over the years, but not "Labour left", as it currently stands.

The "kitten eating Tory" posts make me want to dig my heels in and say "fuck you". Why would I want to align myself with people who hold others in such utter contempt.

As for not understanding why Labour lost, it's been explained a million times why. You just have your fingers in your ears, going "la la la" because you don't want to hear it.

@BertramLacey

Give over that it is just because someone is female.

Would you care to show me where I have said it is just because someone is female? Or is it more the case that I've said we need to make sure that men are women are assessed equally. This is a good article that examines the way in which assessors show bias. www.idealrole.com/blog/cv-bias.html Changing the name on a CV from female to male gets a different result, without changing anything else. That shouldn't be happening.

Again, that sort of research is very uni-variate focussed. As you are.

The 10 year old research you are referring to is extremely simplistic AGAIN. What was the job, for example. If it was an engineering job you would get a different result as to whether it was a teaching or nursing job. Would you be as disgusted if the men were rejected more for a teaching or nursing job - which is likely?

And now you will say that there shouldn't be 'gendered jobs' but I will say that the facts show something different. On average men are more attracted and suited to jobs around things, women in jobs with people. That is the actual preference that people show when in a more egalitarian society. There are not millions of women knocking the door down to go into STEM. However much that fact upsets you, it's just true. I know a lot of women and know one developer. I know a lot of men and know about 10 IT developers. It is not some contrived conspiracy, it's just that, you know men and women are a bit different - especially at the tail ends of the distribution. i.e. the very very techy people are almost universally men. The very very nurturing people are almost universally women.

This difference plays out all over our economy.

What I don't get is the newspaper headlines indicating the 'left' of the labour party feeling vindicated. If people are voting Tory it's not a move further left that's required. It's probably a mixture of factors (as is everything) but the woke agenda and unclear policies aren't helping.

Donitta They’re really not. That might be what the Express, Mail, Telegraph, Sun are telling you every day - then faithfully echoed by the BBC, Sky News, etc. The Tories are the ones obsessed with faux patriotism meaningless culture war politics
Nah. As someone said, the Conservatives hate women but at least they know what one is. I’ve never heard Boris say TWAW.

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken
And yet it’s the Tory Party members (50% was it?) who said they were firmly against a Muslim PM and that “Islam was a threat to the British way of life”. Which is the Party of hatred, sorry?

Their response was to try shouting at me on my own doorstep that people like me would mean the Tories would win the seat
Hope you shouted back that, no, it’s people like them that mean the Tories will win the seat.
Plenty of people on this thread explaining why they can’t/didn’t/won’t vote Labour only for those who don’t want to hear to say it’s because they are thick/xenophobic/racist and then listing all the failings of the Tories. You’d think they’d grasp that if the Tories are as bad as they say they are, then how bad must Labour be to get trounced? But no. Which is why Labour are doomed.

@MrsPsmalls

It's the bloody woke agenda. Which proper working class people i.e. people who actually go out and do a hard day's work for minimal money simply don't have time for. Not the 'working class' (self identified) people who work in media, or artisan bread making or art galleries - they love all that shite as they have the luxury of having the time and money to care. So Labour may still do okay in middle class areas, but they have completely lost the plot with the real working class.

If we define ‘woke’ as ‘alert to social and racial injustice’ - what is different about ‘woke’ from old Labour values?

Do you miss racism or something?

I have absolutely no clue what is going on in this country
How are people being taken in by Boris and his cabal

@hamstersarse

People just want jobs

They don’t want politicians wanging on about identity politics and how awful we all are

And pride. People want to feel proud of their country, their industry, their achievements. The Labour Party members who determine policy, leadership etc are utterly divorced from actual voters. I didn’t vote for Brexit, but it’s not hard to imagine that if you had, the constant narrative that you’re too stupid to “vote correctly” is just going to get people’s hackles up. Same with their identity politics, as Jo Swinson and the LDs found. To vote for the party whose members, even shadow cabinet (Lisa ducking Nandy) have labelled you bigots, transphobes and racists would be unthinkable. It also insults voters intelligence to think that they can field appalling candidates, as long as they have a local or working class accent. Much like the assumption that people will look past how woeful Angela Rayner and Lisa Nandy are because they’re working class. The actual working class, the actual people who do manual labour, they want a better life for their kids. Regardless of the accent, having a politician on £70k a year tell you that making money or aspiring for home ownership is bad, so please don’t get any ideas above your station, you’re far too bigoted to progress in life, is a massive turn-off.

@Redwinestillfine
Labour is eternally screwed because there are four/five parties scrambling for the left of centre vote in the UK. The Tories take everything a smidgen to the right.

Grew up in Teesside, my parents are still in the area. I am now in the SE.

This is what happens to a political party that focusses on telling a small subsection of the population that their "lived experience" is real, valid and important but tells everyone else that their "lived experience" makes them stupid bigots.

@TatianaBis
“Do you miss racism or something?“
Many, many do. The social attitudes surveys of Tory Party members are most revealing.

We'll have another female leader of the Conservatives before a female leader of the Labour Party (unless they make an all women short list - which would be very belittling to many women and annoy working class voters sense of fair play)

As far as Labour are concerned, males can be on an "all women shortlist", so its highly unlikely they will ever have a female leader anyway.

The individual labour mp who was standing in Hartlepool used to be in Stockton South (which is I believe where he lives) and he was genuinely excellent. However Hartlepool hasn't taken to him not being from Hartlepool, and also he was a strong remain supporter - Hartlepool voted 70% in favour of leave. Unfortunately he was the wrong choice to be put into the Hartlepool seat for labour.

According to many people on here, white people in one of the most affluent, safest and most privileged countries on Earth feel victimized and bullied by people standing up for the rights of minorities - so they then vote for a party which has historically demonized the working class, immigrants, disabled people, and women. Pretty pathetic really.