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Original poster

why are libraries free and leisure centres charge

129 replies

ivykaty44 · 21/04/2021 16:00

when they are all municipal

I can use internet for freak local library, take out 10 books that would cost me £50 on amazon

yet go swimming and there is a charge

I don't mind

but why?

OP posts:
1990shopefulftm · 21/04/2021 16:02

Many libraries have volunteers as staff and they get a tiny amount from council tax and leisure centres have paid staff that need life guard training I guess?

EscapeDragon · 21/04/2021 16:06

Libraries are a public service.

Most leisure centres are independently run by businesses on behalf of local councils and as such, need to make money.

Original poster
ivykaty44 · 21/04/2021 16:11

EscapeDragon so is refuge and recycling, but we don't pay extra for that, so no different from leisure centres

OP posts:
IbrahimaRedTwo · 21/04/2021 16:12

Well for one thing, it costs much much more to run a leisure centre than a library. Also leisure centres are nice to have but libraries are an essential service.

Original poster
ivykaty44 · 21/04/2021 16:15

how much does it cost to run the library service of a council - which would be several libraries and how much would it be to run a leisure centre?

why would a library be more of an essential service than a swimming pool and exercise rooms? surely both are in their way

OP posts:
MildredPuppy · 21/04/2021 16:16

I suppose there are alternative free ways to exercise or do leisure (i agree exercise is an essential service). For instance many parks and gardens are free at point of use leissure services and you can jog around them.

Soubriquet · 21/04/2021 16:17

A lot more staff are needed in a leisure centre including lifeguards and the pool needs to be heated which is another cost

user1636853246842157 · 21/04/2021 16:19

Value judgements. Priorities. Public health goals. Human behaviour. Political choices.

ColinSupporter · 21/04/2021 16:19

I don’t think libraries are an essential service (we could install some computer terminals in other buildings if necessary), but nonetheless they don’t cost much and other people seem to like them. They tend to be full of volunteers in a way that leisure centres aren’t. Plus the capital and running cost of a pool, gym etc is a lot more than the cost of a glorified portacabin with half a dozen computers and some books.

Refuse collection is provided free at the point of use because otherwise people fly tip, rats multiply etc and it causes problems for society as a whole. People not swimming doesn’t. Plus almost everyone generates rubbish, a tiny fraction of them use leisure centres.

IbrahimaRedTwo · 21/04/2021 16:20

I don’t think libraries are an essential service (we could install some computer terminals in other buildings if necessary)

Do you not know what a library is?

VeniVidiWeeWee · 21/04/2021 16:20

Because it's a statutory requirement: Public Libraries and Museums Act 1964

IbrahimaRedTwo · 21/04/2021 16:21

Refuse collection is provided free at the point of use because otherwise people fly tip, rats multiply etc and it causes problems for society as a whole

I pay for refuse and recycling, and no, we don't Hmm

Original poster
ivykaty44 · 21/04/2021 16:21

So if a council service costs a lot to run are we saying that charges are then made for that service?

So if recycling and refuse prices went up and cost more than the leisure centres would we start paying for them?

Can councils pick and choice what we pay extra for ? I guess we vote in the county councils so they get to vote on this stuff for us

OP posts:
Original poster
ivykaty44 · 21/04/2021 16:22

@VeniVidiWeeWee thank you

OP posts:
Mummytemping · 21/04/2021 16:23

@user1636853246842157

Value judgements. Priorities. Public health goals. Human behaviour. Political choices.
This. I do think they should be free or at least means tested because it would save the NHS if we were all healthier!
ColinSupporter · 21/04/2021 16:23

“I don’t think libraries are an essential service (we could install some computer terminals in other buildings if necessary)

Do you not know what a library is?“

Yes. But the only convincing argument I hear for why they are needed is so people can access the internet, computers etc to access state provided services, job hunt etc. I don’t see the point of them for the provision of actual paper books - I don’t see a need for actual paper books at all really except maybe for little children.

ceilingsand · 21/04/2021 16:24

We do pay for refuse and recycling, if you check your council tax.

MildredPuppy · 21/04/2021 16:24

It interesting. I presume many services are statutory and others are at their discretion and those presumably have to not cost money that prevents statutory services happening

Original poster
ivykaty44 · 21/04/2021 16:26

@ceilingsand were talking about free at source, libraries are also paid for through council tax

OP posts:
IbrahimaRedTwo · 21/04/2021 16:26

So if a council service costs a lot to run are we saying that charges are then made for that service?

We are saying councils don't have magic money trees, so when things cost a lot to run they need to charge or they won't exist anymore.

Yes. But the only convincing argument I hear for why they are needed is so people can access the internet, computers etc to access state provided services, job hunt etc. I don’t see the point of them for the provision of actual paper books - I don’t see a need for actual paper books at all really except maybe for little children

Wow. You're clearly someone who needs to spend some time in a library. What a depressing (and daft) attitude. You don't see a need for BOOKS?

ColinSupporter · 21/04/2021 16:29

“ I pay for refuse and recycling, and no, we don't hmm”

You personally might not. But if you made rubbish collection a chargeable by kilo service you really don’t think there’d be a big increase in flytipping?

plinkplinkfizzer · 21/04/2021 16:30
Biscuit
ichundich · 21/04/2021 16:30

It's fairly obvious that the installation, running and maintenance costs of a leisure centre far exceed those for a library. Gym equipment has to be cleaned, serviced and updated regularly and it tends to be £££ per machine. A gym also includes qualified staff such as fitness instructors, yoga teachers, nutritionists, physiotherapists, life guards, first aiders etc. Whereas in a library you buy a few books (quite a few are donations), shelves, and work stations, and the staff are mostly volunteers. As for refuse services, the council makes money from these by selling off garden and recycling waste. I do agree that access to the local swimming pool should be free / subsidised like it is in many other countries. These services should be there for the community to enjoy and not to make a profit.

ColinSupporter · 21/04/2021 16:31

“ Wow. You're clearly someone who needs to spend some time in a library. What a depressing (and daft) attitude. You don't see a need for BOOKS?”

Not really. Yes, I absolutely value the information, stories, pictures they contain... but why does that need to be in paper format?

Original poster
ivykaty44 · 21/04/2021 16:32

I still feel football pitches, tennis courts, swimming, exercise rooms are important to peoples health as books are to people, so would put equal emphasis on both - but have had my answer from the post above, so obviously it is just an opinion

OP posts: