why are libraries free and leisure centres charge

[ivykaty44]

when they are all municipal

I can use internet for freak local library, take out 10 books that would cost me £50 on amazon

yet go swimming and there is a charge

I don't mind

but why?

highly trained librarians and para-professionals

Doing what? All I ever see at a public library is someone taking back/booking out loans, and someone keeping the shelves organised.

Libraries have always been seen as an educational service so are free, as are schools.
Sports centres are a leisure service therefore require a cost.

All I ever see at a public library is someone taking back/booking out loans, and someone keeping the shelves organised.

There are reference librarians and there's quite a lot of work that goes on behind public areas, acquisitions, cataloguing, working with other organisations and so on.

@Ifailed

highly trained librarians and para-professionals

Doing what? All I ever see at a public library is someone taking back/booking out loans, and someone keeping the shelves organised.

I think they do stuff like organising visits from schools, toddler story reading sessions, book group discussions, events like author visits and school holiday activities, helping people use the internet and the different online facilities like Ancestry. I've often asked library staff for advice e.g. "I liked this book, can you suggest something similar" and got some good suggestions, and they've been especially good at finding books that my dcs would enjoy. Probably lot of admin/routine stuff too. I think that all needs training and knowledge.

Councils provide parks free of charge where you can exercise all you need for free, leisure centres really are for ‘extras’ such as swimming and gym.

Libraries often serve secondary purposes, I know our local one has the housing office work there for appointments with the public. It's an interesting question though. I currently work as a toilet attendant in a council run facility. We are providing a service although there is a charge .

Realistically the takings are 10- 30% of the cost of running the facility. Should they be free perhaps increasing use? Should they be free for locals whose council tax is paying for them? Should they be shut down to help the council; balance their books?

I would say it makes a difference to some people esp. the elderly being able to get out and about. Obviously this is exacerbated by the alternative facilities in cafes and restaurants being closed.

I work for behind the scenes for my councils library service- dealing with stock selection, cataloguing, paying invoices, helping organise author events/story rhyme time sessions/summer reading challenge and plenty of other things! We provide ebooks and eaudio books for customers to borrow for free as well.
Our libraries are still staffed by employees and some volunteers, the problem with volunteers is if they don't want to turn up one day or just stop they can do and the libraries end up being closed unexpectedly. The council tried to close half the libraries in the county a couple of years ago but after campaigning they did a u-turn which was amazing and very unexpected! It is much more than just books and provides a safe place for many people.

You can exercise in many places, in many forms, solo or with others, for free.

Access to books and the other services that libraries provide is not free. My children and l borrow literally hundreds of books each year.

And let’s not naively assume that everyone can afford a Kindle or IPad to read digital books on.

I live in a county where the council spent their money on other things and then couldn't afford to keep everything open. The small towns lost their libraries, the sports centres were put out to tender.
They are relying on voluntary services to provide access to computers for those needing to use online government services: for example universal credit. It's an absolute disgrace.
The libraries provided a community hub, somewhere for people to access information, to meet likeminded people. A place for the older members of the community to visit with no cost, for mothers who had previously been out all day at work to meet others in the same situation. Losing the libraries meant much more than losing access to books for a swathe of our communities. And there is no way to replace the experience of the opportunity to read for fun for a young child.

@Ifailed

highly trained librarians and para-professionals

Doing what? All I ever see at a public library is someone taking back/booking out loans, and someone keeping the shelves organised.

Professional librarians tend to work in headquarters, not in branches. Although it’s more common now due to budget cuts, but around here very few of the brach staff are qualified librarians.

Librarians are responsible for buying stock, running events, legal issues (copyright, data protection etc) and staff management.

[quote ivykaty44]@VeniVidiWeeWee I said it was an obscene aqusation to be be accused of being a Tory think tank. So to answer your question I was being accused of not being a regular member of mn but coming here and scouting for ideas from other people, whilst pretending to be someone else.

That’s different from being called a Tory, take some of your own advise[/quote]
I think you need a library much more than you realise 😉.

Anyone can exercise for free - leisure centres are not needed.

Some of my earliest memories are of sitting on little chairs looking through the boxes of books . Wonderful childhood memories .
Then being in primary school and taking myself to the library because they were always in walking distance .
Now as an adult I could never afford to buy all the books I read .
I often see children in there doing homework , Some have no quiet place at home I guess . Also students with laptops .
Or folks having a coffee and reading the newspapers to keep up with current news .
The thought of losing this important community service would be awful.

@Hollyhead

Anyone can exercise for free - leisure centres are not needed.

Depends what exercise you do.

All out of copyright books are available electronically free of charge as well so by your reasoning, libraries are also not needed.

@ichundich 37 hours a week isn't making any difference

@ODFOx

I live in a county where the council spent their money on other things and then couldn't afford to keep everything open. The small towns lost their libraries, the sports centres were put out to tender. They are relying on voluntary services to provide access to computers for those needing to use online government services: for example universal credit. It's an absolute disgrace. The libraries provided a community hub, somewhere for people to access information, to meet likeminded people. A place for the older members of the community to visit with no cost, for mothers who had previously been out all day at work to meet others in the same situation. Losing the libraries meant much more than losing access to books for a swathe of our communities. And there is no way to replace the experience of the opportunity to read for fun for a young child.

Exactly,mothers is a coffee shop and groups at ours or there was before Covid and activities for the dc

At ours I mean

@Hollyhead

Anyone can exercise for free - leisure centres are not needed.

That's true of course, but I think if people haven't been brought up in very active households, then leisure centres can help to give them more of an idea of what they can do, as they offer swimming, classes, gym, squash, badminton etc etc.

Some people would feel like they wouldn't know where to start just doing something themselves outside.

I especially think swimming should be more affordable as that's an easy and enjoyable way to get children to be more active.

I have used libraries all of my life from being a small child borrowing my weekly allocation of books, to using my school library, then Uni libraries. Eventually I became a librarian and worked in a variety of libraries.

Reading is an essential skill and research has proved that high reading levels are a vital part of ensuring we have an educated and skilled population.

Now I am old and very ill, I cannot visit the local library but I rely on the county library’s ebook service. As I read up to 150 books each year, I couldn’t afford to buy them all. Reading keeps me from going insane!

Libraries are essential to a civilised and educated country.

The cost of running a leisure centre is astonishing. I used to work back office admin / foh for one and it ran at a loss every single year. If it were to make money the prices would need to be increased to the point of pricing out most people.

The cost of maintaining the heating of a pool alone is much more than people realise. Then you have the pool plant room, chemicals, treatments, not to mention the training duty managers need to attend just for this alone. The training and certification costs by themselves were a lot.

Depends what exercise you do. All out of copyright books are available electronically free of charge as well so by your reasoning, libraries are also not needed

This isn't logical at all, and is also untrue. The vast majority of out of copyright books are not available electronically. And even if they were, not everyone has internet or a laptop/tablet/kindle. Books go out of copyright 70 years after an author's death, so that leaves the other 90+ percent of books people borrow from public libraries still in copyright. Most books don't become classics, and out of print non-fiction is often hopelessly out of date. I can't think of more than 4 or 5 out of copyright children's books out of the hundreds my dcs have borrowed.

Almost the opposite situation is true of exercise. The majority of it takes place outside of local authority leisure centres - running/walking/cycling outdoors, exercise videos, private classes, team sports in parks, private gyms.

Which is not to say that leisure centres are not important, or shouldn't be subsidised, but that you can't compare the free availability of books outside of libraries with the opportunities to exercise.

I don’t see the point of them for the provision of actual paper books - I don’t see a need for actual paper books at all really except maybe for little children.

This has made me really sad.
Our local library is used probably older people who don't have the means to read books digitally and often don't want to!

Personally, I think actually physical books are wonderful and I'm delighted they've seen an renaissance recently as everyone predicted they'd disappear!

I don’t see a need for actual paper books at all really except maybe for little children.

Well that got my day off to a real, "The Human race is fecking doomed isn't it?" start.

Libraries provide somewhere for students to work. If you’re a teen living in crowded conditions you can study in peace - vital for levelling up of opportunities. Go into a reference library once schools are on study leave & you’ll be amazed by how full it is.

My local library has 4 members of staff. The local leisure centre must have well over 30 or 40. A leisure centre costs far more to run and maintain than a library.