why are libraries free and leisure centres charge

[ivykaty44]

when they are all municipal

I can use internet for freak local library, take out 10 books that would cost me £50 on amazon

yet go swimming and there is a charge

I don't mind

but why?

Libraries are (or at least were) essential in a way that leisure centres never were, or ever will be.
Also they are linked with the right to a free education , and while many might feel they are redundant now with being able to Google everything, it wasn't that long ago that access to specific information was from libraries only.

Their services have expanded and now they aren't just linked to education, but being able to get a job, benefits etc. Printers and scanners are handy as well if you're applying for stuff, need copies of documents etc.

Libraries are a statutory public service. Provision of knowledge and information is important, enabling digital access is important, borrowing books is good for the environment (and plenty of people much prefer paper books). Libraries also offer tons of community support programmes and opportunities and are often accessed by those most disadvantaged. They’re not just places full of books (and putting two computers in a community building wouldn’t be the same either).

Oh and many leisure centres do offer highly discounted services to various categories of people, or GP's can refer people to use them for free as part of their treatment.

@ColinSupporter, my local library is usually busy. Parents and children borrowing books, students studying, people reading books, newspapers and using the internet, using the printers and so on.
It was missed during the lockdown. Have you not heard of broadband poverty?

You personally might not. But if you made rubbish collection a chargeable by kilo service you really don’t think there’d be a big increase in flytipping?

No, because in my country we all pay for refuse and recycling and we have less of a flytipping problem than the UK, where you don't. We have strong laws and strict enforcement.

ichundich I don't know any librarians, but after going to uni, getting a degree. their going to really love your post...

Not really. Yes, I absolutely value the information, stories, pictures they contain... but why does that need to be in paper format?

What other format do you think they can be accessed in, for free, that is accessible to everyone?

@ColinSupporter

“ Wow. You're clearly someone who needs to spend some time in a library. What a depressing (and daft) attitude. You don't see a need for BOOKS?”

Not really. Yes, I absolutely value the information, stories, pictures they contain... but why does that need to be in paper format?

What other format do you propose? Digital?

That shows a very narrow minded view that absolutely everyone in this country has access to some kind of device, the ability and skills to use it and some kind of access to the library network/ the internet.

That is obviously not the case.

You can’t read for free, but you can exercise for free.

“my local library is usually busy. Parents and children borrowing books, students studying, people reading books, newspapers and using the internet, using the printers and so on.
It was missed during the lockdown. Have you not heard of broadband poverty?”

That’s fine. I’m not running a campaign to shut them. I don’t deem them essential in the way I would deem say adult social care or refuse collection essential, that’s all. I wouldn’t care personally if they ceased to exist. If other people like them that’s fine.

@IbrahimaRedTwo

I don’t think libraries are an essential service (we could install some computer terminals in other buildings if necessary)

Do you not know what a library is?

Oh dear so many misconceptions about libraries here.

Most staff are not volunteers. They are highly trained librarians and para-professionals. They have a myriad of skills and are very poorly paid.

Although the same applies to lifeguards. Highly trained and poorly paid for the responsibility they have.

Many councils have had to close some libraries as a cost saving exercise which disproportionately affects lower income families without computers, enough disposable income to purchase books, dvds etc. Also many libraries run free children’s activities after school and during school holidays. Our local libraries also host talks and exhibitions. Many services that I would personally consider a higher priority than free swimming do not have sufficient funding Day centres for elderly or disabled people have been closed for example and funding for respite care has been drastically reduced. School children usually have access to swimming organised by the school so you are really talking about wanting free swimming for adults or leisure swimming for families.
There is unfortunately only so much money to go round and councils have to make tough choices as they cannot raise council tax enough to cover everything.

@ivykaty44

how much does it cost to run the library service of a council - which would be several libraries and how much would it be to run a leisure centre?

why would a library be more of an essential service than a swimming pool and exercise rooms? surely both are in their way

Have a look at the size of your leisure centre, and the land it's on, compared to the library. Compare the equipment. Compare the number of staff. Compare the likely utility bills of each.

It should be fairly evident why one is more expensive to run than the other.

As PP have stated by statue (the Libraries Act) libraries must be free to use. I used to work for a library service in a reasonably wealthy part of london & managed a couple of savings programmes. Many local residents have come forward to say they would pay (ie via subscription or for basic services such as book lending) to keep libraries open with qualified trained staff rather than volunteers but it's not an option because of the Act.

It can be frustrating because there are few ways of raising income for the service, but on the other hand I can see the benefits of ensuring this is a free service for all

My local library charges £3 an hour for internet. I have no idea why, but I figured that was standard. It’s interesting that’s it’s free elsewhere! I guess it must come down the local council.

@ColinSupporter

“my local library is usually busy. Parents and children borrowing books, students studying, people reading books, newspapers and using the internet, using the printers and so on. It was missed during the lockdown. Have you not heard of broadband poverty?”

That’s fine. I’m not running a campaign to shut them. I don’t deem them essential in the way I would deem say adult social care or refuse collection essential, that’s all. I wouldn’t care personally if they ceased to exist. If other people like them that’s fine.

It's not a matter of like, it's a matter of need. Just because you don't need them, doesn't mean that no one else doesn't.

To some people they are indeed as necessary as refuse collection and social care.

@ivykaty44

EscapeDragon so is refuge and recycling, but we don't pay extra for that, so no different from leisure centres

We do pay for that through council tax. Every single household needs a refuse service, but only a small percentage will use the leisure centre. If the cost of building, equipping, staffing and running a leisure centre was added to everyone's council tax, everyone's bill would have to rise hugely, yet most would get nothing for it.

It's much fairer that people who use the leisure centre pay for it. The council will subsidise some of it/some people of course.

Two points: the 10 books that you bought on amazon would be yours to keep, whereas if you borrow them from a library you have to take them back for many others to share and enjoy. AND to the poster who said why bother with paper books, that may be valid for relatively recent fiction which is also available in digital format, but the majority of non-fiction books and older fiction books are only available in hard copy. Libraries offer so much more than just books, though - they are havens of information which benefit the community in so many ways. I hope councils continue to see their value and keep them open for us all to benefit from.

Are you part of a Conservative think tank sounding out library privatisation on Mumsnet? Weird question.

Our leisure centres are all run by external companies.

Libraries are run by councils and yes you pay your taxes for them, but they are a statutory service the council HAS to run. I believe leisure centres are non statutory and are often run by outside companies on behalf of the council, so will do the upkeep etc, pay staff etc etc etc and therefore charge to do that. There is no obligation for the Council to provide them

By the way not all refuse collection is free. Lots of councils charge extra for collecting garden waste

Is it actually "municipal" because our local "council" leisure centres aren't run by the council any more.

My local library has a fundraiser for its running costs a bit like a school PTA, that raises far more for the library than the local leisure centre in profits so it shows whats more important to people I think.

Lol Our council shut 6 out of 14 libraries during austerity. One had been there since 1908, lovely building.
But hey ho need to keep the public purse balanced