I'm so upset with new neighbours

[hedgedrama]

I started a thread a good few weeks ago here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4195576-I-need-some-Mumsnet-sense-knocking-into-me

And to update on the hedge, they basically tore it down. Despite the agreement that some would be left. They have offered to buy me some new hedging for my side. I was sort of OK with it all, I didn't end up having much choice, just as people warned me on the first thread but I tried to just let it go and not create a war. The (probable) nesting birds was incredibly upsetting, but it was just too late - they sort of did it anyway.

But today has really been a new level of awfulness. They brought in some diggers to landscape the garden to install their astroturf, and I noticed something moving. It was a frog. As I paid more attention I could see literally tens of frogs so I went out and bearing in mind our gardens literally are joined at the moment as there is no fence or hedge, I went onto their garden could see there were a LOT of frogs being caught up with the digger.

The driver of the digger stopped when he saw me come over into their garden, and when I said there are frogs here, he was like "Yeah I've seen loads"

There was a natural pond there for years. It is breeding season, and as I went over I can see frogs everywhere trying to escape for their lives.

The owner of the house came out and we started to catch some and move them into my garden, but there were honestly everywhere. I said "you can't just do this. It is against the law. You are intentionally killing frogs etc.".

They have stopped the works and they have been out and caught about 60 frogs (no exaggeration) in a bucket and I have taken them to a local pond (within a mile as the wildlife conservation trusts recommend).

But I now have a message from them that they are starting work with the digger tomorrow again and will be on "frog watch".

I am so upset they would have just killed the 60 odd frogs that I put in the local pond, about how many have died already, but then also that they are going to start work tomorrow without being sure they have captured all the frogs.

AIBU? I feel so disgusted. I have called the council Environmental Health and am waiting for a call back, but I don't know what else to do??

They sound bloody terrible. Contact the council - parish and local and county, contact your local wildlife trust and follow the advice of all of those. As this thread shows there are enough people who don't give a rats ass about nesting season, wildlife or many other things. Sod them and try and get any relevant laws and fines applied.

Some people are just ignorant.
A couple of years ago new arrivals in our street blocked up a nest in their eaves with the baby swallows still in it. Their neighbours informed the police and the RSPB (after having begged the people to stop) but by the time anybody did anything it was too late. The parent birds were absolutely frantic. Such a shame.

OP, I’m sorry you have such selfish arsehole neighbours & seem to have attracted similar people on this thread. I agree with you, and I’m sure they be up in arms if it was something that they cared about rather than “just” nature. Make life as difficult for them as possible- if they are doing the right thing they will be able to demonstrate it and no harm done, if not they are shots and deserve every obstacle you can throw in their path.

You have a conscience, just a shame so many others don’t.

Gosh this thread

There is nothing any agency will do. Nothing at all. She can report them to every single council and environmental agency there is, it does not change the facts. They are allowed to dig up their garden and put Astro turf down and they are allowed to disturb the common frog. The op has no evidence there were any nesting birds in the hedge, and they will say there was not.

They are literally not doing anything wrong. There is nothing anyone will do.

I totally get it OP, we have moved rural and have loads of wildlife. My (only) neighbour approached us regarding overhanging branches, no problem, their entitlement so the just put a cherry picker up and dropped the branches on our boundary fence. Then asked if they can lop 10 foot off the 40yr old rhoderendron bushes.... Because its blocking light into his property. Swiftly told to fuck off.

Caveat, the neighbouring house is a church conversion and he has no regard for laws or regulations. He just wants his masterpiece to be seen from the main road.

They are literally not doing anything wrong
Perhaps not in the eyes of the law, but morally, their behaviour is absolutely revolting and indefensible.
No decent person would knowingly kill live animals for no good reason, I certainly don’t think landscaping, if you can call plastic grass that, constitutes a ‘good reason’.
Unfortunately most people are not at all decent, this thread proves that.

@hedgedrama if you ring your local police station they will be able to put you in touch with the wildlife officer. They are normally very knowledgeable and helpful and will know if 'your' frogs are protected.

When a builder tried to demolish an old building near us with a long established bat colony the police were very proactive.

@DiddlyWiddly

They are literally not doing anything wrong Perhaps not in the eyes of the law, but morally, their behaviour is absolutely revolting and indefensible. No decent person would knowingly kill live animals for no good reason, I certainly don’t think landscaping, if you can call plastic grass that, constitutes a ‘good reason’. Unfortunately most people are not at all decent, this thread proves that.

But this is what I’m arguing. They were not killing the frogs. I have them. Lots of them as I have a stream, I get the bush cutter in at the banks, I habe to as it’s unmanageable otherwise, as soon as i switch it on, they hop off and fast. In seven years I’ve never killed one frog. Not one. And I’m in there with a swirling blade. Once I’m done, they hop on back.

They disturbed the frogs, yes, they removed their pond, yes, but it’s highly unlikely they killed them. A frog is as likely to sit there waiting for the digger to kill it as a pigeon would be.

It’s illegal to kill a particular breed of frog called pool frogs, it’s not illegal to kill common frogs, which these probably are, only to sell them.

But it’s highly unlikely they killed them, any environmental officer who takes this call and has ever dealt with frogs is going to immediately thing what I’m thinking, which is “ this is odd, the frogs would have scattered and hopped off fast as soon as they heard the noise”

What rhe op is posting about a massacre of frogs is highly implausible.

Op,

I'm really with you re the wildlife, it's highly distressing to witness people who don't appreciate it causing such destruction to their habitats and lives - especially when these actions are carried out illegally.

However, you need to step back from this emotionally. I know it's hard and I appreciate that you shouldn't have to, but you need to look at the bigger picture.

They are going to continue to carry out the landscaping work regardless of your personal feelings. Its clear that whatever your objections, they will fall on deaf ears. You could report them, but this will probably create a whole world of problems for you and when picking your hill to die on, I don't think this is it.

Your choice however.

Putting the wildlife to one side for a moment, I think you have a stronger case re the security of your garden and it isn't unreasonable to request that they prioritise securing it ASAP, even if this involves temporary measures in the meantime. They could at least put up temporary fencing and repair your gate so your dog is safe. They should also give you advanced notice of any work that will result in similar disruption to your property.

Pick your battles. Sadly, I don't think the one about wildlife is it - you've already lost this one. Focus on how you can help wildlife recover from your own garden instead. They do need to address damage and access to your property and there should be greater courtesy with regards to this going forwards.

@MegaClutterSlut

I really don't know how some people wouldn't of intervened in this situation live animals were being harmed, I would've 100% stepped in. You have to be some kind of arsehole just to sit back and watch happen imo

Obviously a lot of fucking arseholes on this thread. Bloody hell people are thick. Well done OP 👏

I think you did the right thing OP. My parents made a wildlife pond and my dad has accidentally ran over a few frogs with his lawnmower. I don't know why that poster is insisting it is impossible to kill frogs by digging up their pond and the rest of the garden with a digger, of course some of them are likely to be killed.

I hate to say this but I reckon they have moved the boundary fence with no intention of putting it back and just adding no man's land to the current plot

AstroTurf says it all. Dicks.

@AlwaysLatte

AstroTurf says it all. Dicks.

So anyone who has AstroTurf is a dick? Regardless of reason.

OP doesn’t have a case re. security. There is no law that states there has to be a fence/wall/hedge etc.

If she wants one, she can either put one up herself or wait for them to. There’s no requirement for there to be one at all.

The point being missed by the numerous people posting since OP updated with this comment:

I may not have explained but that digger has already turned over the whole garden and you can't even see the pond anymore, it is totally filled over. Yes, some frogs have been saved, but there is no doubt that some will have been killed already. They had already done multiple loads to the dumper truck. And they gave no shits, they would have carried on regardless - they knew the frogs were there. But if that makes me the nightmare neighbour, so be it.

is that it's too late.

Apologies, posted too soon

The thing's done and you can’t do anything to stop it. You can object all you like: they're not going to listen.

All you can do is console yourself with the knowledge that you did your best, and by planting some hedgerows on your own property that they can't bulldoze. I have a love of silver birch trees: we've one already and I planted two more last autumn. I'd also be tempted to put in some fast-growing conifers to hide the state of that godawful astro turf from view.

The world's full of destructive people. Unfortunately there isn’t much anyone can do about that.

That’s true ☝🏼

About not having to have a physical structure on a boundary.

OP you sound like a lovely person and good on you for what you did, there should be more caring and selfless people in this world.

It does seem however like your neighbour is taking advantage of your kindness, you said in your original thread that he was going to run a wire and put the fence there so you'd keep some hedge, what happened to that?

You've been extremely reasonable and accommodating but you should tell them enough is enough, put up your own fence or put a border on your land and fill it with plants and deny them any more access over your garden.

It is their problem not yours and you can focus on getting your own garden back to how it was any not think about theirs.

What they don't realise is frogs return to the place they were spawned from so will be back either later this year or next.

@emilyfrost

OP doesn’t have a case re. security. There is no law that states there has to be a fence/wall/hedge etc.

If she wants one, she can either put one up herself or wait for them to. There’s no requirement for there to be one at all.

Exactly. There’s some outrageously bad advice being given on here. There is no agency that will do anything, there is no law that’s been broken and it is not the neighbours job to provide a hedge or fence for her security..

The op needs to take responsibility for her own security , out with the damaged gate post. They are going to do what they are going to do in their own garden and that’s it. No laws have been broken, the only issue here is they have damaged her fence post and they need to repair this.

It doesn’t matter if peoooe think they are arseholes (and I tend to agree) it simply doesn’t change the fact that other than damaging her fence post they have not done anything legally wrong.

Frogs return to where they were born, I think, in order to spawn. They may come back.

But hey! ASTROTURF!!!