I'm so upset with new neighbours

[hedgedrama]

I started a thread a good few weeks ago here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4195576-I-need-some-Mumsnet-sense-knocking-into-me

And to update on the hedge, they basically tore it down. Despite the agreement that some would be left. They have offered to buy me some new hedging for my side. I was sort of OK with it all, I didn't end up having much choice, just as people warned me on the first thread but I tried to just let it go and not create a war. The (probable) nesting birds was incredibly upsetting, but it was just too late - they sort of did it anyway.

But today has really been a new level of awfulness. They brought in some diggers to landscape the garden to install their astroturf, and I noticed something moving. It was a frog. As I paid more attention I could see literally tens of frogs so I went out and bearing in mind our gardens literally are joined at the moment as there is no fence or hedge, I went onto their garden could see there were a LOT of frogs being caught up with the digger.

The driver of the digger stopped when he saw me come over into their garden, and when I said there are frogs here, he was like "Yeah I've seen loads"

There was a natural pond there for years. It is breeding season, and as I went over I can see frogs everywhere trying to escape for their lives.

The owner of the house came out and we started to catch some and move them into my garden, but there were honestly everywhere. I said "you can't just do this. It is against the law. You are intentionally killing frogs etc.".

They have stopped the works and they have been out and caught about 60 frogs (no exaggeration) in a bucket and I have taken them to a local pond (within a mile as the wildlife conservation trusts recommend).

But I now have a message from them that they are starting work with the digger tomorrow again and will be on "frog watch".

I am so upset they would have just killed the 60 odd frogs that I put in the local pond, about how many have died already, but then also that they are going to start work tomorrow without being sure they have captured all the frogs.

AIBU? I feel so disgusted. I have called the council Environmental Health and am waiting for a call back, but I don't know what else to do??

Well done on saving all those frogs. If I were you, I'd order some hedging plants and plant up your hedge on yours side, maybe with a fence on the shared boundary line, and just try and enjoy your own garden.
On the upside, if they are only going to be there a year, at least you won't have to put up with them for too,long, and who knows, you might get some lovely nature loving new neighbours 🌱

Op what are you on about? Yes it’s a crime to intentionally kill frogs but they weren’t doing that, frogs are fast, I have many myself. They hear the noise and they friggen get out the way. And they do it quick smart. They will have heard the noise and hopped off.

Going back to the hedge, if the roots were on their side then, with the best will in the world, they couldn't have left some hedge your side. The frog scenario sounds awful! I'd be asking him to put the fence up ASAP and then at least I wouldn't have to watch the garden being destrpyed/revamped.

@Bluntness100

The Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 protects frogs whether you own the land or not. It is especially cruel at breeding season

What?

Pool frogs are protected but these are not pool frogs, the common frog is only protected from trade or sake.

"It is also a criminal offence under WCA 1981, again subject to certain exceptions, to intentionally or recklessly:

damage or destroy any structure or place which an animal protected under WCA 1981 uses for shelter or protection; or
to disturb any such animal while it is occupying a structure or place which it uses for shelter or protection; or
to obstruct access to any structure or place which any such animal uses for shelter or protection."

I can empathise with how you feel about the hedge and the frogs.
However you are very interfering and sound like a nightmare
Unfortunately they can do what they want to their garden.
You need to wind your neck in

I would have stood in front of the digger too and rescued all the frogs.

All I can assume is you’ve no experience of frogs..😂

60 frogs in my garden would terrify me, I’d have to have them removed to a pond somewhere else, not digger kill em

It is also illegal to pull down a hedge in breeding season too

Op I think every single person reading this knows if there was even one next in there you’d have found it and shouted about it.

OP dig a pond n your garden.
Frogs and toads, newts and dragonflies will use it.
All the neighbs need install now is a screamer trampoline.
Vile things, always put hard up against a boundary fence .

Well done for caring about wildlife OP. I do too, but it's obvious from this thread alone that most people don't give a sh!t about anyone or anything apart from their own selfish wants. There's so much noise about 'saving the planet' and then people astroturf, concrete and tarmac over every square metre of land.

Don't get me started on litter louts either. I'm sure there are plenty of them on this very thread who fling their masks, cans and fast food wrappings from their car windows. They'd probably think they could 'justify' it too by whining that the council haven't provided them with a bin every five metres or so. The world, sadly, is full of ar$eholes.

All I can assume is you’ve no experience of frogs..
Okay, I would have tried to rescue all the frogs.
Just like OP did and managed to save 60...

Sorry , the digger driver knew they were there , but did the owner of the house ?

You said they came out and moved the frogs and said they will be on frog watch tomorrow .

And just because there is no fence there , you are still trespassing.

Hopefully if frog watch carries on some more will be saved tomorrow.

@Bluntness100

It is also illegal to pull down a hedge in breeding season too

Op I think every single person reading this knows if there was even one next in there you’d have found it and shouted about it.

It's actually quite hard to find nests in hedges. And this was a big thick hedge.

But anyway, no, I didn't look. It would have been too upsetting because it was happening anyway.

Are you going to put up your own fence, maybe just inside the boundary?
4 weeks without a dividing fence/ hedge is a security risk. I take it you don't own a dog?

@DiddlyWiddly

All I can assume is you’ve no experience of frogs.. Okay, I would have tried to rescue all the frogs. Just like OP did and managed to save 60...

Honestly you’d not need to

As said, we have rhem, they are like any wild animal. You go near a bird, a mouse, a squirrel and make a loud noise and they shift fast. Frogs are the same, they don’t just sit their stupidly looking at the digger.

I’ve no idea how the op caught sixty. And I’m very dubious about that. It would genuinely be like trying to catch a squirrel. You’d be running around like a mad bastard just trying to catch one.

It is a criminal offence to intentionally kill them.

Round here, I’m the neighbour with the pond, the hedges, the trees, nest boxes, bird feeders, woodpile, wild area etc. However, I would not just wander willy nilly onto someone else’s property (hedge boundary or not) because you sense an injustice is being committed.

That’s why we have laws & a legal framework within which to act. You see an offence being committed? Contact the relevant body. Don’t wander around your neighbour’s garden flapping your arms while someone’s using a bloody digger.

They stopped, collected the frogs, will be on the lookout again tomorrow.

If you’re worried about habitat, make your own garden an oasis for critters of all shapes & sizes. Plant that boundary hedge. Dig your own pond. Put in a woodpile for reptiles. Don’t waste your breath trying to change your neighbours, do something to encourage that fantastic wildlife in your own garden.

Op I think every single person reading this knows if there was even one next in there you’d have found it and shouted about it.

What is confusing here is that you would blame me for being an idiot even if I did do that. And not the people with total disregard for wildlife?

"These are the:
..
common frog
..

For any of these species, it is an offence to deliberately or recklessly:

• capture, injure or kill a wild animal

• disturb an animal while using any structure or place it uses for shelter or protection – e.g. breeding pond, hibernation site

• obstruct access to a breeding site or resting place of an animal, or otherwise deny the animal use of that site

• disturb an animal in a manner or in circumstances likely to significantly affect the local distribution or abundance of the species

• disturb an animal in a manner or in circumstances likely to impair its ability to survive, breed or reproduce, or rear or otherwise care for its young"

Poor frogs, it's a shame to lose these vital habitats for our wildlife and I would have been upset to witness that too. Our gardens are so important for wildlife, and nature friendly gardens are such nice places to be too. Have you got a pond OP? Maybe channelling your frustrations into making your garden a safe haven will help you and the wildlife. Gardening has been hugely therapeutic to me over the years.

@l2b2

Are you going to put up your own fence, maybe just inside the boundary? 4 weeks without a dividing fence/ hedge is a security risk. I take it you don't own a dog?

It is a security risk. I had a side gate that they have damaged and now no longer works as they needed to get their digger through - he said he will build me a new post, like he is doing me a favour.

I also have a dog who can now escape.

Reading your other thread it doesn't sound as if the legal situation around the shared boundary hedge was resolved, especially if they were meant to leave it on your side. I'd look at the garden law community and see if it's worth speaking to a solicitor asap. I have a commercial developer neighbour, they try and push and take the piss over everything but robust pushback has saved us a bit of grief.

I feel your pain OP, a few frogs and a hedge, each is small but they're yet more of the thousand cuts to the biodiversity and natural capital that benefits and sustains all of us and which you personally enjoyed.

Look on the bright side, you'll have another day of frog catching and complaining to look forward to!

Side note -are you honestly saying you caught 60 frogs and they all stayed in the bucket without jumping out? Is your neighbours garden home to some species of mega relaxed frog? Because the ones I've seen shit themselves at the sight of their own reflection, let alone a digger and some woman chucking them in a bucket.

Sigh.

Op. Put your own fence or hedge up, you’re responsible for your own security and that of your dog. It’s not up to your neighbours to provide it for you.

As for their disregard of wildlife. The frogs would have shifted, I’d be shocked if even one got hurt, and I’m sorry I’m not buying you saved 60 frogs, chasing after them would have taken hours and been like something out a benny hill sketch. And it looks like there was no nesting birds in the hedge either.

They are allowed to do their garden, they are Doing nothing wrong. You on the other hand are trespassing and are.

wow, all of this hysteria over some frogs!

I'm relieved you don't live next door to me. You'd have gone fucking mental if you saw what I was doing a couple of weeks ago. No frogs were harmed, but a hedge and shrubs may well have "moved".