I'm so upset with new neighbours

[hedgedrama]

I started a thread a good few weeks ago here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4195576-I-need-some-Mumsnet-sense-knocking-into-me

And to update on the hedge, they basically tore it down. Despite the agreement that some would be left. They have offered to buy me some new hedging for my side. I was sort of OK with it all, I didn't end up having much choice, just as people warned me on the first thread but I tried to just let it go and not create a war. The (probable) nesting birds was incredibly upsetting, but it was just too late - they sort of did it anyway.

But today has really been a new level of awfulness. They brought in some diggers to landscape the garden to install their astroturf, and I noticed something moving. It was a frog. As I paid more attention I could see literally tens of frogs so I went out and bearing in mind our gardens literally are joined at the moment as there is no fence or hedge, I went onto their garden could see there were a LOT of frogs being caught up with the digger.

The driver of the digger stopped when he saw me come over into their garden, and when I said there are frogs here, he was like "Yeah I've seen loads"

There was a natural pond there for years. It is breeding season, and as I went over I can see frogs everywhere trying to escape for their lives.

The owner of the house came out and we started to catch some and move them into my garden, but there were honestly everywhere. I said "you can't just do this. It is against the law. You are intentionally killing frogs etc.".

They have stopped the works and they have been out and caught about 60 frogs (no exaggeration) in a bucket and I have taken them to a local pond (within a mile as the wildlife conservation trusts recommend).

But I now have a message from them that they are starting work with the digger tomorrow again and will be on "frog watch".

I am so upset they would have just killed the 60 odd frogs that I put in the local pond, about how many have died already, but then also that they are going to start work tomorrow without being sure they have captured all the frogs.

AIBU? I feel so disgusted. I have called the council Environmental Health and am waiting for a call back, but I don't know what else to do??

Focus on the security aspect and the dog escaping with your neighbours.they should have secured the boundary before removing the hedge.
Don't bring up the frogs again, they'll think your nuts, when actually they are very much in the wrong leaving it wide open for weeks on end. Most people put up with it for a day or so, not 4 weeks.

*You're

Not that I feel the need to prove that the frogs weren't 'just hopping off' happily in response to the digger. They just weren't - they were everywhere in the piles of rubble.

This picture shows a couple of layers of frogs in the very tall sided bucket. Who would have all been killed most likely.

God this thread is so sad - so many posters who don't give a shit about our wildlife. Frogs/nesting birds/all the things that we watch with fascination on SpringWatch or David Attenbrorough - do you not give a shit about them?

The frogs are not only in their garden - the neighbours are in The Frogs' garden too.

Personally I'd rather the neighbours were hounded out and squashed by a digger! How'd they like that?

Focus on the security aspect and the dog escaping with your neighbours.they should have secured the boundary before removing the hedge

Eh? They don’t need to provide security for their neighbour. They can remove their own hedge any time they wish.

@Bluntness100

Focus on the security aspect and the dog escaping with your neighbours.they should have secured the boundary before removing the hedge

Eh? They don’t need to provide security for their neighbour. They can remove their own hedge any time they wish.

I had a perfectly secure house before they pulled everything down and left it open for nearly 4 weeks now.

And it looks like there was no nesting birds in the hedge either. - how do you know that? Middle of April, peak nesting season - in my garden (all hedge, all down one 120ft side) is all nesting birds.

Not rural, def urban, next to an international airport - and still full of nests. With babies in.

Maybe you'd be annoyed if your home and babies were chopped up/down.

I have read your other thread and honestly don't understand why you are allowing all this to happen without taking legal action, notifying the relevant bodies etc.

From your latest update, criminal damage has been done to your gate and gate post at the very least. I would also say criminal damage has been done to the shared boundary hedge since you did not give permission for it to be removed.

I am no expert but from the replies to this thread and previous thread, you have plenty of legal recourse. Do you have anyone IRL who can support you to actually do it?

Heartbreaking. People like this sicken me, sheer bloody cruelty to the natural world. Not sure the frogs will have any protection in law, but perhaps you could work with a sympathetic local rescue or amphibian group who can help relocation.. :(

Poor little frogs.
Pay no attention to the more negative comments OP, most people are, unfortunately, breathtakingly entitled and selfish and rude to boot.
I agree with comments that you should build your own pond and make your garden as wildlife friendly as possible.

It's no wonder the world is in such a sorry state.

So many people don't care at all about the natural world and wildlife.

I had a perfectly secure house before they pulled everything down and left it open for nearly 4 weeks now

So what have you done to put in your own security?

Could you also contact the digger company? This would not be positive press for them.

@Bluntness100

I had a perfectly secure house before they pulled everything down and left it open for nearly 4 weeks now

So what have you done to put in your own security?

I don't know whether you are deliberately trying to be obtuse, I suspect so!

I had a side gate, I had a boundary hedge, both are now gone because of their need to get the digger through (they did this while I was out btw and I just came home to find the gate hanging off the hinges) and then to install the fence. This side of my house is completely open. But you are asking me what I have done to secure my house? It was all fine until a few weeks ago.

OP, you are being very restrained in your responses to some posters who seem very challenged, intellectually 🙄 The entitlement shown is immense. I think at least half the posters on this thread would like to see the planet coated in wipe clean plastic, preferably in primary colours and feck wildlife. Not much point in explaining bio diversity to such idiots, sadly 🤪

Sympathy OP.

It's threads like this, and the ones about laundry where people reveal they wash and tumble dry their entire family's towels, pyjamas and every item of clothing every single day, that makes me both understand why the planet is in the state it's in, and despair that we can turn it around.

So many people just don't get it. And just don't care.

Oh my god, this is so upsetting. Yes to calling council. You could also call your lcoal wildlife sanctuary -they might knw about all the relevant laws.

If there'a a pond and that many frogs, there may also be newts, which are protected: www.gov.uk/guidance/great-crested-newts-protection-surveys-and-licences

Why are people such bellends? Those frogs are so lucky ythey have. All amphibians are declining in the UK, and selfish, inconsiderate twats like your neighbour are part of the problem. Awful behaviour.

This is helpful: www.inbrief.co.uk/neighbour-disputes/garden-ponds/

It says: 'Certain animals are protected under the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 (WCA 1981). These include:

the common frog;
the common toad;
some species of newts;

Where an animal is protected under WCA 1981, subject to certain exceptions, it is a criminal offence to intentionally kill, injure or take the animal in question and this is something to bear in mind, particularly if you intend to move species between ponds or wish to fill in a pond.

It is also a criminal offence under WCA 1981, again subject to certain exceptions, to intentionally or recklessly:

damage or destroy any structure or place which an animal protected under WCA 1981 uses for shelter or protection; or
to disturb any such animal while it is occupying a structure or place which it uses for shelter or protection; or
to obstruct access to any structure or place which any such animal uses for shelter or protection.'

So your neighbours are breaking the law, so are the contractors, and they need to stop.

www.stephensons.co.uk/site/news_and_events/uptodatenews/think_before_you_remove_that_hedge_dispute

One example from the internet. They can't just remove a shared boundary hedge and they can't just wreck your gate. There are solicitors that specialise in neighbour disputes who will give you a free initial consultation and advice.

A solicitor letter from you over the hedge and it would probably still be there along with your gate. They're treating you with contempt because they don't think you'll do anything, show your teeth or who knows what they'll put you through next.

I really don't know how some people wouldn't of intervened in this situation live animals were being harmed, I would've 100% stepped in. You have to be some kind of arsehole just to sit back and watch happen imo

Your neighbours sound awful. I'd be out rescuing the frogs too sounds like they are causing a lot of wildlife destruction

@tenlittlecygnets

Oh my god, this is so upsetting. Yes to calling council. You could also call your lcoal wildlife sanctuary -they might knw about all the relevant laws.

If there'a a pond and that many frogs, there may also be newts, which are protected: www.gov.uk/guidance/great-crested-newts-protection-surveys-and-licences

Why are people such bellends? Those frogs are so lucky ythey have. All amphibians are declining in the UK, and selfish, inconsiderate twats like your neighbour are part of the problem. Awful behaviour.

This is helpful: www.inbrief.co.uk/neighbour-disputes/garden-ponds/

It says: 'Certain animals are protected under the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 (WCA 1981). These include:

the common frog;
the common toad;
some species of newts;

Where an animal is protected under WCA 1981, subject to certain exceptions, it is a criminal offence to intentionally kill, injure or take the animal in question and this is something to bear in mind, particularly if you intend to move species between ponds or wish to fill in a pond.

It is also a criminal offence under WCA 1981, again subject to certain exceptions, to intentionally or recklessly:

damage or destroy any structure or place which an animal protected under WCA 1981 uses for shelter or protection; or
to disturb any such animal while it is occupying a structure or place which it uses for shelter or protection; or
to obstruct access to any structure or place which any such animal uses for shelter or protection.'

So your neighbours are breaking the law, so are the contractors, and they need to stop.

You know how it mentions certain exemptions well unfortunately common frogs come under those exemptions. The only part of the legislation that applies to them is the trade and sale of them.

With regards to the hedge unfortunately it was planted on their land and was technically their hedge so they had the right to remove it and do not have an obligation to replace it, op however has an obligation to secure her dog. They sound completely obnoxious, no they shouldn't have removed the hedge during nesting season, what they are doing to the frogs is cruel and unnecessary but there isn't much the op can do.

@MegaClutterSlut

I really don't know how some people wouldn't of intervened in this situation live animals were being harmed, I would've 100% stepped in. You have to be some kind of arsehole just to sit back and watch happen imo

Being an ar$ehole seems quite popular these days and they’ll defend their ‘rights’ (please note: they don’t think they have any responsibilities) to their last breath. Selfishness abounds 😞

@MegaClutterSlut

I really don't know how some people wouldn't of intervened in this situation live animals were being harmed, I would've 100% stepped in. You have to be some kind of arsehole just to sit back and watch happen imo

Thank you for that.

I really am starting to doubt myself with all the accusations of being interfering. I don't want to be that person but at the same time, animals were literally being killed and I don't want to be that person either.

I had a side gate, I had a boundary hedge, both are now gone because of their need to get the digger through

Op. I’m not being difficult. Yes they damaged your gate, and yes they need to fix the post one hundred percent.but you did not have a boundary hedge. They did.

Your neighbours sound like a nightmare -- not just for the the environment and wildlife (well done for trying to protect them), but for you and the other neighbours they're riding roughshod over. You can be sure they'll continue with the same attitude.

I recommend this forum to anyone with aggressive unreasonable neighbours: gardenlaw.co.uk

Good luck, OP.