"Empath" means "self-obsessed woo-accredited fool" ...

[SuziQuatrosFatNan]

... doesn't it?

@WonkyWhiteLavender

I think this is one of the saddest, nastiest threads I have witnessed on Mumsnet for a long time. And for Mumsnet that is saying a lot.

Whereas I see it as educational. Perhaps even just one person on the thread has been brought to the realisation that (1) everyone feels empathy, and that no individual can claim that they feel it to a greater extent than anyone else, because they have no way of knowing this and (2) if you are someone who struggles in day to day life to regulate your emotions, you should seek help.

I know, fool for me for thinking people wanted to find out more about empathy vs sensitivity

There you go again, thinking we need you, Ms Empath, to explain anything to us! Just STOP.

@SamusIsAGirl

I know, fool for me for thinking people wanted to find out more about empathy vs sensitivity.

It's almost as if I still think that the Internet is a useful tool for the acquisition and pooling of knowledge and experience that has hitherto been unrivalled in the history of the world - except possibly the Library of Alexandria (also one of the first Universities we would recognise as it had lecture theatres, laboratories and dissection rooms.)

Do you not see how arrogant your posts are?

And your previous post about empaths 'feeling how someone can be at that point in time and how they got there and why they might be or act that way - a sort of connection as it where even if you don't agree with their actions or even find them objectionable' -- virtually everyone feels this. It's not some special insight reserved for a few, it's part of being an ordinary human being.

Do you not see how arrogant your posts are?

No, not really. But then isn't everyone a work in progress?

Yep it does. Otherwise you'd just say you're a normal person capable of empathy, like most normal people are.

I know, fool for me for thinking people wanted to find out more about empathy vs sensitivity.

The thread title should've given you enough of a "heads up" that this isn't the thread's intended purpose.

But I'm always open to education so can you explain to me why "empaths"

1. think they are special or have a condition that warrants special treatment,
2. make someone else's emotion, grief, sadness, worry, etc all about them and how they need sympathy and attention and
3. believe that they genuinely know what is going on inside someone else's head?

I suspect is feeling how someone can be at that point in time and how they got there and why they might be or act that way - a sort of connection as it where even if you don't agree with their actions or even find them objectionable
But plenty of people do that. Most people have empathy.
No self proclaimed empath has been able to explain to me why they're so different from everyone else.
You gave the example of being upset by what's on telly and turning it off, but lots of people do that. It doesn't make them empaths.
Now it's empaths can understand how people hold different views, but lots of people do that.

So it given most humans have these skills, either self proclaimed empaths are:
A) self absorbed and seem driven to think they're a special group of human
B) people who genuinely have problems with putting boundaries and have an unhealthy way of emotionally responding to situations
C) a mixture of both

*But I'm always open to education so can you explain to me why "empaths"

1. think they are special or have a condition that warrants special treatment,
2. make someone else's emotion, grief, sadness, worry, etc all about them and how they need sympathy and attention and
3. believe that they genuinely know what is going on inside someone else's head?*

1. Nope
2. That's just plain weird - PS I'm not Shane Dawson, honest
3. Not really, just some of it

Plus I'm kinda dumb when it comes to humans. Prefer materials. They don't complain when I hit them with hammers, cut them up with a diamond saw or heat them up to 1000C to see what happens.

The two self proclaimed empaths I know are the complete opposite. They'll find out about something happening in my life and say they feel my pain/happiness/anger etc and get, what I would consider, hysterical about it. So clearly they're not empathic because my feelings are nowhere near as extreme, but they just like to assume I'm just hiding my emotions and "being strong". I can only assume they're trying to garner favour with me by giving me tonnes of unwarranted sympathy. Except it doesn't work as I hate being the centre of attention and I find it bloody annoying to be told how I feel.

For example my granddad died. Empath went into tears on my behalf and went on about my great loss (because you're supposed to be devastated when a grandparent dies). Reality is I didn't feel much as I rarely saw him, he beat my nan and tried to use threat of disinheritance to control us (but the empath didn't know these facts).

Do you not see how arrogant your posts are?

No, not really. But then isn't everyone a work in progress?

We all are. I don’t see your posts as arrogant at all.

It’s really funny that Ibrahim is protesting that she doesn’t need you to educate her about YOUR experience about a thread that is talking about something you can relate to more than her.. yet she spent the last few posts educating me and others about the meaning of empathy.

What they really mean is, we are subhuman level with our logic and shouldn’t dare engage or contribute to a discussion with our opinions, especially not discussions that were meant to be about our experience.

No, not arrogant at all.

t’s really funny that Ibrahim is protesting that she doesn’t need you to educate her about YOUR experience about a thread that is talking about something you can relate to more than her.. yet she spent the last few posts educating me and others about the meaning of empath

You still don't get it! YOU can't decide that the pp can relate more than me. You don't know me, or her. She can't decide that either. Exactly the same way that you can't decide that you feel things more than the next person...you don't know how they feel. You just think you do.

This whole point is about you, and other self proclaimed empaths, making yourself the centre and deciding that you know more about other people and you feel more and you're this and that more....it's so self absorbed and narcissistic and you can't see how you reinforce that with every single thing you say.

Lots of us can relate to this topic, in that we have experience of people who tell us they are "empaths". That experience tells us that they are the absolute worst people we know. You don't seem to have any empathy at all for anyone saying so, every comment is about YOU.
Typical bloody empath. Wouldn't know any actual empathy if it bit them on the arse.

*1. think they are special or have a condition that warrants special treatment,

1. make someone else's emotion, grief, sadness, worry, etc all about them and how they need sympathy and attention and
2. believe that they genuinely know what is going on inside someone else's head?*

Honestly none of these ring true.

I wonder whether the “lack of self awareness” accusation is simply you trying to impose your own explanation of what our self is thinking and feeling and intending and then claiming that we are flawed that we don’t see in ourselves what you are seeing.

Doesn’t that make point 3, more true about you than someone else?

Like I said, I think empath is a self ID think. I’m not sure about people who just go announce it to the world like a badge of honour. But most people I know who associate with it- perhaps more quietly- are not that..

I believe the label is not the right one.. but as it currently stands, judging someone on the internet who identifies as an empath who might not be celebrating that in public as something that someone else did.. is really arrogant on your part

SamusIsAGirl
So what is an empath?
Its not someone who chooses to switch off things that upset them on the telly, because most people do that
It's not someone who can understand other people's feelings and points of view, because most people do that.
It's not having empathy, because most people have that
It's not some special condition
It doesn't require special treatment
It isn't about making other people's feelingsball about the empath and how the empath feels it more

So what is it?

TBH not sure if its empathy or alexithymia (SP) since most of the time I cannot put a feeling to emotions.

PS I'm a STEM major - perhaps look up PLoS for more formal definitions if you aren't sure. Wikipedia is also a good starting resource.

"Whereas I see it as educational. Perhaps even just one person on the thread has been brought to the realisation that (1) everyone feels empathy, and that no individual can claim that they feel it to a greater extent than anyone else, because they have no way of knowing this and (2) if you are someone who struggles in day to day life to regulate your emotions, you should seek help."

1. Unless you're a psychopath...they tend not to feel empathy at all. Everyone else will have empathy to a greater or lesser degree.

1. I take issue with because....just TRY getting help if you are struggling. It's almost non existent.

I'd describe DS (18) as having loads of empathy but he's autistic and has no idea how to cope with it. Again....try getting support....it's not out there,

But you have said you do number 3. You told me, and a few others, what we think of you. That you were wrong isn't the point, you did make that claim!

@IbrahimaRedTwo I think you've elicited the circularity of this. You think 'an empath' lacks self awareness and centres the world around themselves. 'An empath' is telling you that is because you lack self awareness and are self centred!

I've had 40 some years of that with one particular friend. Thankfully we don't live near each other any more, so we don't annoy each other as much any more

Doh! forgot that you might need something like ATHENS login or other access to JaNET - nevertheless there are educational resources out there - just be wary of their credibility.

Says the STEM major who suggested Wikipedia

@PrelovedWithValue

Oh god. The self-proclaimed empath.

An individual completely caught up in their own feelings about a situation to the detriment of the people actually going through it.

In my experience anyway.

God yes.

They repost shit from a Facebook group called 'empaths and old souls'

Virtue signalling

I still on occasion use Wikipedia as a starting point for research if it is something new in my wheelhouse - the thing you need to to is check and verify the resources - it is seldom the primary sources I use, more the secondary ones I access via links and cross-referencing.

(Still remembers manual referencing and paper hard copies.....)

Why is someone who feels a lot of empathy so much worse than someone who is arrogant, or rude, or says what they like regardless of how much it hurts people.. Etc etc?

@Whiskyinajar

"Whereas I see it as educational. Perhaps even just one person on the thread has been brought to the realisation that (1) everyone feels empathy, and that no individual can claim that they feel it to a greater extent than anyone else, because they have no way of knowing this and (2) if you are someone who struggles in day to day life to regulate your emotions, you should seek help."

1. Unless you're a psychopath...they tend not to feel empathy at all. Everyone else will have empathy to a greater or lesser degree.

1. I take issue with because....just TRY getting help if you are struggling. It's almost non existent.

I'd describe DS (18) as having loads of empathy but he's autistic and has no idea how to cope with it. Again....try getting support....it's not out there,

Look, I have total sympathy about the lack of support -- I didn't mean to suggest it was plentiful or easy to access by any means. My godson is 19 and autistic and absolutely struggles with regulating his emotions, though he works hard at it in a way I very much admire.

My point was really about recognising that if being unable to regulate your emotions is causing someone significant issues, then it's a matter that is worth trying to find support for (even if said support is difficult to access).

Why is someone who feels a lot of empathy so much worse than someone who is arrogant, or rude, or says what they like regardless of how much it hurts people.. Etc etc?

It's not "someone who feels a lot of empathy", it someone who calls themselves an "empath" and who does not actually feel much real empathy. They are arrogant, and they are rude, and they do hurt people.

So much worse? Or maybe, absolutely no different from...

It's not "someone who feels a lot of empathy", it someone who calls themselves an "empath" and who does not actually feel much real empathy. They are arrogant, and they are rude, and they do hurt people

So not actually empathetic people then. Fake empathetic people. Which is not the same.

So much worse? Or maybe, absolutely no different from...

Someone actually feeling genuine empathy in a situation would not be any of those things. So, no, not the same, completely different.