"Empath" means "self-obsessed woo-accredited fool" ...

[SuziQuatrosFatNan]

... doesn't it?

But this is not empathy - it’s an emotional adaptation / response to being under threat from an abusive, neglectful or erratic parent.

These honed / over reactive sensory skills are then brought to adulthood by the traumatised child where they are applied in “normal” emotional environments where the person may misunderstand / over react to the mood and this backfires - as their hyper alert senses may actually be distorted through being incorrectly calibrated to a constant state of suspicion and threat. So they may be assuming zebras every time they hear hooves.

Again it’s not empathy - it’s essentially mis-attuned self protection.

You haven’t said anything new. What you are missing though, is that your understanding of the word “empath” is incorrect. It’s precisely what you describe but not specifically about empathy

The only person I’ve ever known who calls himself an ‘empath’ is someone who

1. Says unkind things
2. Has no friends because he’s upset everyone
3. Is probably the least empathetic person I’ve met.
4. Thinks Donald Trump is a good person.

People who call themselves empaths are more likely to have delusions of grandeur IMO.

What you are missing though, is that your understanding of the word “empath” is incorrect. It’s precisely what you describe but not specifically about empathy.

Please you clarify this for me because I can’t understand the nuance.

Empathy : the ability to understand and share the feelings of another.

So if someone empathises with an empath, does the empath then have a bigger empathic reaction to the empathy being shown and does it end up in a destructive loop of never ending empathy?

No. Because that’s not what an empath is feeling needing. Read my previous posts to get a better understanding because you clearly don’t understand what the term is referring to.

Sssloou

Google is your friend. You might also want to read what is “empaths” are saying

[quote Shikamiri]I'm an Empath. I've never said it out loud, I just feel what I feel and get on with it. There are some people who others seem to love that I just cannot be around, my Father being one, I get such an unpleasant sour vibe from him. Also, people I don't really know well tend to tell me toooooo many things about themselves, without my asking and that really exhausts me. I don't think its something to be fixed, I just make sure that I don't over extend myself with regard to people having access to me and I stay away from people who make my stomach hurt, or cause me to dissociate.

This really resonates and is me, in a nutshell.
People who are Empaths usually have difficult childhoods. They are highly prone to anxiety, and are likely to struggle with digestive issues. They are often sensitive to the needs of others, but may not feel reciprocated. This often lead to feelings of being misunderstood and rejected, and maybe even feeling that they are ‘not good with people’. Empaths are likely to be more sensitive to the effects of substances, which can make them more prone to addictions, among other reasons

Interesting read

medium.com/swlh/living-as-an-empath-when-you-feel-everything-and-nobody-seems-to-understand-65fecce2aa03[/quote]
@Shikamiriika, with respect, that article is a farrago of unevidenced nonsense. It's trying to put a New Age spin on people who struggle with regulating their own emotions by dubbing them 'Unawakened Empaths'. I can quite easily believe you have been painfully sensitised to other people's emotions because your family environment was hostile or unpleasant as a child, but that's not a 'gift', it's a trauma adaptation.

Currently, there is a lot of sadness and pain in this world, and for Empaths, it can be a very painful and confusing time.

This is exactly the kind of breathless, snowflakey rhetoric that makes people cross. It's a difficult time for everyone. 'Empaths' don't get a pass for having it harder than anyone else.

Sometimes Empaths may feel certain emotions out of the blue. They may also be prone to headaches and find themselves with mysterious body aches. These are often due to them subconsciously picking up emotions from others. Thus, large crowds tend to be overwhelming.

The gifts of an Empath, allow one to connect with anyone in this world, because they literally feel them. That is the gift of being an Empath.

And as for

There is a belief that everything in this world is made up of vibrations. We are constantly vibrating, and people influence each other through these vibrations.

• seriously?

People who call themselves empaths are more likely to have delusions of grandeur IMO.

Some are honestly. Some are narcissists hiding behind the mask of an empath. Doesn’t mean that every empath is a narcissist.

I mean, most narcissist have obsession with empaths... so they might convince themselves that empaths are the problem.

It could go both ways.

@SugarbabyMilly

The only person I’ve ever known who calls himself an ‘empath’ is someone who

1. Says unkind things
2. Has no friends because he’s upset everyone
3. Is probably the least empathetic person I’ve met.
4. Thinks Donald Trump is a good person.

People who call themselves empaths are more likely to have delusions of grandeur IMO.

Yes this is also my experience in RL and on this thread!

It’s all about their OWN sensitivity - to criticism - to perceived (mis-interpreted) slights - disproportionate responses which leads them clanking into conflict so inadvertently fulfils their original twitch and fuels another pity / overwhelm cycle.

However the sensitivity or emotional state of the OTHER is rarely considered or addressed or soothed.

Again not about empathy but the types who vocally announce their empath superpower when all around them give them the eye roll because it’s a jarring stealth boast.

@Incognitool agree with this:

you have been painfully sensitised to other people's emotions because your family environment was hostile or unpleasant as a child, but that's not a 'gift', it's a trauma adaptation.

But I would also suggest that this adaptation is distorted - and can end with the person misinterpreting, assuming and amplifying others emotions. So although THEY feel more intense the other may not be feeling that at all.

But I would also suggest that this adaptation is distorted - and can end with the person misinterpreting, assuming and amplifying others emotions. So although THEY feel more intense the other may not be feeling that at all.

Yes. That’s why it leads to misdirected compassion at times.

Probably projecting their attunement to people in our personal lives who abused us unto the rest of the world.

Parents do primarily direct our socialisation. And empathy is directly related to socialisation. So if the parent exploited the child’s sense of empathy (yes it’s a thing) then they are likely to view everyone around them that does just that as someone coming from a place of love. And likely to attract those kinds of relationships.

Most abused kids are isolated and controlled by their narc parents. So their exposure to what’s normal could be very confined to what agrees with the parent.

And so with time this becomes our view of “society”. If everyone arounds us cries when we share our bad news with them then we assume that’s what compassion is.

It’s a mis-socialised sense of compassion...

I would not be surprised if narcissists were once empaths that lashed out on the world after deciding that no one is to be trusted. But doesn’t mean every empath is a narcissist. Just the same as not every anti-empath is a narcissist but could actually be..

It could be a narcissist ashamed of their empathic past totally lashing out on empaths. I’ve seen a lot of those in my life too. Could really go both ways.

The pigeonholing in this thread is totally ironic.

@CuriousaboutSamphire

Empathy, having empathetic skills and 'being an empath' are entirely different things though!

Which is the basis of the whole thread.

My DH is almost entrely lacking in empathy, he does compassion and sympathy but doesn't really get empathy at all.

My DF is a narcissist.

I am not all that empoatheitc, though I am compassionate in many ways. And I too have my narcissistic traits.

We all have personality traits.

But that doesn't mean we are some sort of Acme Personality

You only have to look at where the Are You an Empath articles are published to see why so many are gulled by them!

I think they are very much the same thing, how can you be an empath and not empathetic to others.

The pigeonholing in this thread is totally ironic.

Seems you have created quite a few new ones - what’s an “anti-empath” ?

Ssslou , if you don’t know what it means how could you assume that I’m pigeonholing?

Here is an example of your pigeonholing though:

I think I’ve seen it as “I’m more vulnerable of having my empathy exploited by people because of my eroded boundaries”.

No one can declare themselves more or less vulnerable than anyone else.

You are not inside someone’s psyche. You have no idea of their emotional resilience.

This declaration in itself is the most assuming, arrogant, deluded, entitled, grandiose - and UNEMPATHETIC stance .... all the classic traits of the covert Narcissist.

You have consistently been trying to attack other peoples empathy, logic and making it all personal and then whenever anyone tries to explain their stance you call them oversensitive.

I reckon many pp here have been called our for some narcissistic traits ( I’m aware we all have them) and we’re told they lack empathy and so they’re totally projecting that on someone who identifies as an “empath” thinkng that they’re saying that they’re better than them.

Narcissistic shame at play?

Why dish it out ?!

Honestly , what’s the point of dehumanising someone for some personality flaws when technically from the OP downwards most people on this thread have demonstrated exactly those flaws they’re vilifying.

We all have a journey of self discovery and improvement to go through. Doesn’t matter where we started.

Doesn’t qualify anyone to judge anyone based on how we expressed compassion in a wrong way.. at least it wasn’t unkindness, which many pp here are displaying.

I would rather be an annoying person than be unkind .

Sssloou
Yet another way of centring the self-proclaimed empaths and highlighting how their plight is so much more difficult than other humans who are busy getting on with boring, usual human behaviour.

This thread has certainly highlighted that there's always people in society who can't get on board with the boring reality that human beings have personalities, and feel the need to highlight how they're so much more special than all the boring normal people.

You seriously went there?
I can't believe you're trying to draw implicit comparisons between a fascist leader who had an ideology that led to genocide to a thread where people are discussing behaviour of those who give themselves a silly label.

Nobody on here is talking about people who don't look like them.
Nobody is saying people shouldn't have empathy.
Many people are saying that empathy is a human behavior, nothing special and that those who seem to think they're better than everyone else usually seem to spend a lot of time making everything all about them by:
A. Having very little ability to read how little people care about their "I'm so special... nobody understands how I experience their feelings even more than they do" beliefs
B. Having poor emotional boundaries, and keeping everyone focused on why everything is tough for them

@DeepThinkingGirl

Can you evidence your claim please?

You have consistently been trying to attack other peoples empathy, logic and making it all personal and then whenever anyone tries to explain their stance you call them oversensitive.

Thank you @SuziQuatrosFatNan for starting this thread, it has been very interesting and informative. There has been a lot of food for thought.

I'm sure most people on this thread are familiar with the Karpman Drama Triangle. The problem with "Empaths" is: They create them.🤦‍♀️ Most of the time, they go in with the best intentions, but once they cast themselves as "Rescuer", "Victim" is not far behind. They use other people's pain to validate and define them.

Empathy would be someone who was over invested to listening to you venting about your cat and then go and cry themselves to sleep.

That isn't empathy, It is the formation of a drama triangle.

I'm sure most people on this thread are familiar with the Karpman Drama Triangle. The problem with "Empaths" is: They create them.🤦‍♀️

Yes I am familiar with the Karpman Drama Triangle.

Except the thread OP who you thanked had used language that would qualify as a bit more aggressive than a “challenger”.. I’m guessing you consider yourself a challenger and so you consider that you didn’t “create” that drama triangle..

But in reality, you are choosing to align yourself with the aggressive undertone of this thread.

So you cannot assume that you haven’t contributed to the triangle.

I at least, have acknowledged my misplaced sense of compassion, damaged past. I could very well have contributed to that triangle.

But to assume that someone like me created it.. well, is totally lacking in self awareness on your part.

The OP didn't create a Drama triangle, she created a binary AIBU conversation on the internet.

DioneTheDiabolist

The OP didn't create a Drama triangle, she created a binary AIBU conversation on the internet.

——————-
Empathy would be someone who was over invested to listening to you venting about your cat and then go and cry themselves to sleep.

That isn't empathy, It is the formation of a drama triangle.

———-

I don’t understand. We need to stick to the same principles here. If someone crying between them and their pillow is considered victimising themselves enough to form a drama triangle.

Then someone starting a thread of open communication on an open forum about people who equally have access to this forum in a language that criticised and dehumanised someone who might consider themselves a victim or rescuer ... is also a drama triangle.

The pillow does not communicate better than a forum.

Again, this is a selective way of applying principles.

Someone crying themselves to sleep, because they heard of their friends suffering. Is just a way of processing emotions and is not victimizing anybody. If you choose to see things in such a dramatic way then hold yourself accountable first

Th Empath victimised themselves as soon as they consider their input as over invested. They lose again and they end up crying themselves to sleep.

You say it is just a way of processing emotions and is not victimizing anybody. I sort of agree and have empathy for that view, but it is a coping mechanism, rather than a processing one. A bit like smoking, comfort eating or self harm.

And the resentment the Empath feels for their "loss" soon becomes apparent to those around them.

Obviously some people are more empathetic than others. Obviously some people are empathetic or particularly so. Just like some people are beautiful, some are highly intelligent etc.

It’s just that anything self proclaimed is to be taken with a pinch of salt. Some people like to label themselves a certain way so that they are (in their own minds) beyond reproach.

It’s impossible to be completely objective about ones self. So someone who feels the need to keep telling other people about how ‘x,y or z’ they are is probably trying to construct a narrative about themselves. Which puts others on the back foot.

@picklemewalnuts

I find these posts really unkind.

Some people struggle to the point of mental illness because their boundaries aren't well developed, they can't protect themselves from the emotions of people around them.
It could be neurodiversity, perhaps autism or a trauma background.

To dismiss it so thoroughly as attention seeking woo is very close minded.

Maybe there's a breed of attention seeker that latches on to 'empath' as a label, but it's the attention seeking that's the issue, not the excessive empathy.

And yes, I have to be really careful what I read and watch. Environments where people bicker make me ill. It's disabling, frankly.

I’m ND, but I don’t go around calling myself an ‘empath’.

I know a few people (not well, thankfully) who've announced they are Empaths. Without fail they lack self-awareness, have situations in their lives they won't deal with. Mostly

"he was attracted to me because I'm an empath" about some dickhead they're wasting their lives trying to fix, as they're in love.

A colleague calls herself an Empath, and during lockdown completed an online life-coaching course. I am incredulous. Almost 40, never left home still lives with parents, in same job for years no progression, doesn't really travel, has been with her DP for almost 10 years no living together or marriage plans.

Bet she'll have no problems getting clients though.