"Empath" means "self-obsessed woo-accredited fool" ...

[SuziQuatrosFatNan]

... doesn't it?

Really good post SugarbabyMilly.
You hit the nail on the head. Empathy is a human behaviour, not something that makes someone special. People will have different levels of empathy and that’s part of being a human.

Someone having poor emotional boundaries, and making other people's pain/feelings/trauma all about them doesn't make someone a special empath. Someone turning someone else's pain/trauma/feelings into why it's so difficult for them to live with this gift of feeling more than 'normal' people isn't being an empath. It's being self-absorbed and assuming a state of specialness by assuming the 'empath' feels more than other people when they have no idea what other people are feeling.

You're right about some people needing labels to create a narrative about themselves. It's also seen in people who invest a lot of time and energy making sure everyone knows how random and out there they are. These people usually engage in superficial behaviours and make 'haha look at how random i am' statements, but after about 10 minutes it's clear they have the depth of a puddle. Meanwhile other people in the room will have travelled interesting places, read interesting things, have hobbies that they know a lot about, will have watched interesting things, done interesting things that others probably haven't, they just don't spend ages making sure everyone knows how special they are.

but after about 10 minutes it's clear they have the depth of a puddle.

I'm stealing this. Would certainly apply to a couple of people I know.

DioneTheDiabolist

Ok I can accept that empath can enforce a narrative or victimhood/rescuer that doesn’t encourage future healthy relationships or mindset. And definately doesn’t help with maintaining boundaries.

Thanks for that.

it is a coping mechanism, rather than a processing one. A bit like smoking, comfort eating or self harm.

Yes. And these are things we generally recognise as maladaptive coping mechanisms, but people who do these things don't generally announce them to others (well, maybe within the confines of a support group) and certainly not as a label they consider confers prestige and special insights.

@roguetomato

Why? I think empath is the person who understands and feels other's feeling and emotions better than normal people.

An empath is a normal person too :-).

Yes it does mean someone who is empathetic. It's a good trait to have as long as you don't feel someone else's pain too much. People who are naturally empathetic have to protect themselves somewhat but that comes with maturity.

I know a few people (not well, thankfully) who've announced they are Empaths. Without fail they lack self-awareness, have situations in their lives they won't deal with. Mostly

”he was attracted to me because I'm an empath" about some dickhead they're wasting their lives trying to fix, as they're in love.

A colleague calls herself an Empath, and during lockdown completed an online life-coaching course. I am incredulous. Almost 40, never left home still lives with parents, in same job for years no progression, doesn't really travel, has been with her DP for almost 10 years no living together or marriage plans.

Bet she'll have no problems getting clients though.

See I really feel like this response is so deprived of any empathy... just because someone called themselves an empath doesnt mean you have to scrutinise their life this way and judge them like that.. I don’t understand this reaction at all..

I was once your colleague. I beleived someone toxic was attracted to me due to being an empath. That’s the origin of the label for me as I had tried to make sense of a very toxic dynamic I was in that kept repeating.

I can understand that the label itself might not be accurate.. but I really honestly don’t get why

From experience, some “empath” tried to validate their pain and convince themselves that it was part of their growth to become stronger members of society, and so they convince themselves that they are now more able to understand other peoples pain as a result of their suffering. It’s not completely inaccurate that you tend to understand other peoples suffering when you go through so much yourself.. but because an empath is stuck in victimhood then they probably assume that the response to pain for everyone is to choose suffering and so they project that narrative and try to either rescue or to join in the tearful exchange.

I don’t think at all it’s coming from a place of arrogance. But I can accept it’s not healthy overall.

But I also really think that someone being stuck in a “persecutor” role and being so judgy about other peoples personal lives is equally unhealthy and really unkind.

It does not inspire whatsoever.

Maggiesfarm
Plenty of people have empathy. Most people do.

The issue is people who label themselves 'empaths' because they apparently feel emotions more than the people who are experiencing a situation or feeling. It's a very self-absorbed mindset: You might be upset that your pet died, but I feel your grief about your pet more than you do because I'm an empath... you might be worried about your child having to go into hospital, but not as worried as me because I'm an empath and I've been worried sick about your child all night. You might be concerned about your parent's dementia care, but don't mention it around me because I'm an empath and feel your concern much more than you do. It's so draining picking up on other people's feelings more than them.

But I also really think that someone being stuck in a “persecutor” role and being so judgy about other peoples personal lives is equally unhealthy and really unkind. Says the poster who loudly proclaimed she had judged others here... and has done so often throughout this thread!

@LolaSmiles

Maggiesfarm Plenty of people have empathy. Most people do.

The issue is people who label themselves 'empaths' because they apparently feel emotions more than the people who are experiencing a situation or feeling. It's a very self-absorbed mindset: You might be upset that your pet died, but I feel your grief about your pet more than you do because I'm an empath... you might be worried about your child having to go into hospital, but not as worried as me because I'm an empath and I've been worried sick about your child all night. You might be concerned about your parent's dementia care, but don't mention it around me because I'm an empath and feel your concern much more than you do. It's so draining picking up on other people's feelings more than them.

And according to the Medium article linked above by another poster, poor empaths struggle walking through a crowd, because they literally feel the emotions of the total strangers they are passing in their own bodies.

From an empath as I am it is important to note that it isn't a superpower - doesn't necessarily make you more sensitive to other peoples feeling/needs all the time.

It does make it mean I avoid the news and social media as well as other people since it can be so overwhelming - particularly if my mental state isn't good at that point.

Being an empath doesn't mean a person is automatically a good person like any other personality trait. We only have to look at Shane Dawson for instance to see what damage empathic people can do for their own self-aggrandisement.

My mum (the self proclaimed empath, probably from trauma/lack of boundaries type, incredibly gentle, mostly harmless) had this bonkers friend a few years ago. We went on holiday with him even though he was my age, because he'd managed to convince her she was his surrogate mum or something, despite never really acting like it.

He was a total narcissist and also self proclaimed empath. He went into a narcissistic rage on day 3 of the holiday and abruptly left. But before he did that we had gone on a walk and he stood next to a metal gate and absolutely swore he could see an invisible unicorn standing past the gate. DSis and I are politely staying quiet. My mum bless her was in raptures of delight actually believing that he could somehow tap into some secret plane and access the magical unicorn. It was bizarre and quite sad. I remember that level of imagination and faith, from when I was a child. I really believed that a cousin of mine had magic powers, even though I knew it was just a game. I remember pretending a force field once so vividly that none of the four of us could pass through it. But to see a 50 year old woman engaging in a fantasy viewing of a unicorn was quite something else and I couldn't believe that he was engaging in it. He couldn't have believed it - he wasn't delusional or hallucinating. It must have been some kind of power trip because she was in awe of his "powers" at the best of times.

Says the poster who loudly proclaimed she had judged others here... and has done so often throughout this thread! grin

Glad you are finding reasons to smile and continue your mockery. At least my empath self is adding light to your day . I shall continue to send you my light. Woooooo

Why, thank you! I imagine it will bring you more joy than it does me

And if your initials are CS - "Hi! It's me" As you sound just like my friend, the one who earns her living being a therapist of the soul!

Is this thread actually helping anyone? - a lot of these threads go into weird, bitchy territory these days.

from someone who had an account deleted when a well-meaning thread went south and was only trying to keep up

@SamusIsAGirl

Is this thread actually helping anyone? - a lot of these threads go into weird, bitchy territory these days.

from someone who had an account deleted when a well-meaning thread went south and was only trying to keep up

I don't think it was started to 'help' anyone. Many posts aren't.

Maybe it might help people who identify as empaths to (a) stop telling other people now that they have been informed as to how annoying other people find it and (b) get some help, if they genuinely struggle with regulating their own emotions or with a disabling hyperawareness of other peoples'.

Is it supposed to be helpful?

Occasionally a thread comes up that polarises responses. The back and forth is often a mix of serious repsonses, aimed at exploring the concepts, see many of the earlier responses. But they often devolve as the more aggrieved 'side' descends to personal slurs - see deletions and one quite remarkable personal one that has been left standing!

So no! I doubt it was supposed to be helpful. It's just one of those things and, as it is anonymous, we can enjoy the verbal spats, can't we?

I find it funny that much of the thread has turned into being about one person. Now, who'd have guessed that from an empath?

SamusIsAGirl
Genuine question here. There are times I turn off the news because the negativity and certain stories gets me down and it adds nothing to my life sitting through it. Same for certain drama series, I can't watch them without feeling unsettled or uncomfortable but many of my colleagues and friends are fine with them.

Plenty of people turn things off that upset them, or distance themselves from particular topics if they're in a bad place, for example one of my friends avoided covid news for a while as it wasn't helping their anxiety levels. I'd call that being human and having normal human emotions.

So what makes you (or anyone else who identifies as an empath) an empath vs all the other people in the world who turn off things that upset them or unsettle them?

Normal humans have varying levels of empathy.
Being at the high end if the spectrum does not make you a mythical being xD

I suspect is feeling how someone can be at that point in time and how they got there and why they might be or act that way - a sort of connection as it where even if you don't agree with their actions or even find them objectionable.

Like with men who are homophobic in that they are frightened that other men might see them how many men see women. In that case, empathy = yes, sympathy = no.

PS I don't identify as an empath - there is more to me than that and it is not a helpful place to be to pin yourself into a box. I don't want to be in a box even though there are plenty of people who do want that - literally and figuratively.

PS I don't identify as an empath - there is more to me than that and it is not a helpful place to be to pin yourself into a box

You literally identified yourself as an empath in an earlier post. You're not an empath, its not a thing that exists. You do not feel things more than other people, you have no way to tell who feels what apart from yourself.

No, its just one of the things I am, like sucking at Donkey Kong (still can't get off 25 m grrr) and being a god at Tetris.

This thread is getting weird now - I'm not actually that interesting.

I think this is one of the saddest, nastiest threads I have witnessed on Mumsnet for a long time. And for Mumsnet that is saying a lot.

I know, fool for me for thinking people wanted to find out more about empathy vs sensitivity.

It's almost as if I still think that the Internet is a useful tool for the acquisition and pooling of knowledge and experience that has hitherto been unrivalled in the history of the world - except possibly the Library of Alexandria (also one of the first Universities we would recognise as it had lecture theatres, laboratories and dissection rooms.)