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Original poster

Why is the new football ESL so controversial?

320 replies

00100001 · 19/04/2021 07:54

Can some explain like I'm 5?

Why are all the fans, the government, UEFA etc up in arms?

Sorry.... Just not sure what the problem is?

OP posts:
WeMarchOn · 19/04/2021 21:00

@HunterHearstHelmsley i know Spurs & Arsenal 😂😂 WTF

Brefugee · 19/04/2021 21:11

If FIFA/UEFA hold true to what they are saying, these clubs won't be able to play in domestic leagues or cup competitions. Which is ok by me because my English club are useless and my German club won't be affected even if Bayern and Dortmund change their minds. (am surprised RB Leipzig hace also rejected the idea though)

"Legacy fans"? Yeah - it's all about the spectacle. Look forward to matches before lunchtime for the Asian market and in the evening for the US market. So far in Germany we've managed to avoid having Sky dictate the fixture list the way it happens in the UK and long may that last.

What i don't get is if there are 5 clubs who can be "promoted" to the ESL each season, what happens at the end of the season? The "founding" clubs can't be relegated, so how does that work? And how could they be allowed back to domestic competition?

LarsErickssong · 19/04/2021 21:16

@Brefugee

If FIFA/UEFA hold true to what they are saying, these clubs won't be able to play in domestic leagues or cup competitions. Which is ok by me because my English club are useless and my German club won't be affected even if Bayern and Dortmund change their minds. (am surprised RB Leipzig hace also rejected the idea though)

"Legacy fans"? Yeah - it's all about the spectacle. Look forward to matches before lunchtime for the Asian market and in the evening for the US market. So far in Germany we've managed to avoid having Sky dictate the fixture list the way it happens in the UK and long may that last.

What i don't get is if there are 5 clubs who can be "promoted" to the ESL each season, what happens at the end of the season? The "founding" clubs can't be relegated, so how does that work? And how could they be allowed back to domestic competition?

I think the 5 clubs will earn a place through domestic leagues and after that season that's it and it's a new 5 the next season? So there's no relegation as such it's always just the same founding 15 + 5 of the next best?

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

Football
RogueMNerKnowsNoShame · 19/04/2021 21:17

So if you're a supporter of a club that isn't one of the big 6, isn't this potentially quite exciting news for you? Does it not give more of an opportunity for your club to do well?

Hazelnutlatteplease · 19/04/2021 21:26

Im sure there was all the same arguing and hand wringing over the establishment of the premier league?

It certainly did create super-clubs. But it hasnt seemed to destroy peoples love of the sport.

BoredatHome321 · 19/04/2021 21:27

@DuncinToffee

Sorry, but I would rather watch Barca v Liverpool than The Baggies v Fulham.

You don't need a superleague for that, as long as both teams earn their place in either European league.

Exactly. They should earn the right to play against the top teams in Europe. People love watching Barca vs Liverpool because it rarely happens. You enter into a league of no actual competition and play Barca every year, I'm sure it will soon get pretty boring. Majority of the "big games" this season when top 6 have played each other have been 0-0 how exciting is that..
Pedallleur · 19/04/2021 21:29

It's a super league with no threat of relegation. Yes there will be one winning team but no one leaves the League. This ensures a steady income stream. UEFA etc are upset because they aren't seeing any money coming their way. Players may see wages rise if it goes the way of US sports. Those players don't care as long as they get the money. Can't really see what other bodies can do. I have no doubt the maths has been done and broadcasters approached. The big clubs know how much they can make. They aren't bothered about going to Norwich or Wolverhampton. The fans will still go and/or subscribe to Sky or Amazon

theonlywiganer · 19/04/2021 21:31

I think it's absolutely disgraceful although as a Wigan fan it would be nice if they all got stripped of their FA cups trophies as we would be back to being current champions Grin. We'd probably gain some former Liverpool/City/United fans too! Seriously though this has been probably the worst 9 months in my clubs history so I really feel for fans of the 'top 6' hahaha as I know what it feels like to be well and truly fucked over by your owners.

I think everything I have to say has already been said by others on this thread but give me Baggies v Fulham any day of the week, I actually regularly go to United games as a guest of a client and even with all the free food I get in the box the big games can be horrendously boring. I appreciate it's easy to say this as a lower league supporter though.

mrsanflowerpot · 19/04/2021 21:31

@Hazelnutlatteplease

Im sure there was all the same arguing and hand wringing over the establishment of the premier league?

It certainly did create super-clubs. But it hasnt seemed to destroy peoples love of the sport.

But the premier league upholds the idea that any team can reach the top, and indeed you can't stay at the top solely based on history. The ESL will not only not uphold this, but also mean the founding teams involved have an ever increasing money pool that other teams will never have. As a lifelong and absolutely dedicated Arsenal can, who is SO proud of their work in the community, I am beyond disgusted.
BoredatHome321 · 19/04/2021 21:32

@theonlywiganer

I think it's absolutely disgraceful although as a Wigan fan it would be nice if they all got stripped of their FA cups trophies as we would be back to being current champions Grin. We'd probably gain some former Liverpool/City/United fans too! Seriously though this has been probably the worst 9 months in my clubs history so I really feel for fans of the 'top 6' hahaha as I know what it feels like to be well and truly fucked over by your owners.

I think everything I have to say has already been said by others on this thread but give me Baggies v Fulham any day of the week, I actually regularly go to United games as a guest of a client and even with all the free food I get in the box the big games can be horrendously boring. I appreciate it's easy to say this as a lower league supporter though.

Give me Ipswich vs Wigan without goal line technology over this ESL any day of the week.. Grin
Horridcreature · 19/04/2021 21:32

@RogueMNerKnowsNoShame

So if you're a supporter of a club that isn't one of the big 6, isn't this potentially quite exciting news for you? Does it not give more of an opportunity for your club to do well?
It would become a revolving door and probably quite depressing. Say season your team is promoted and plays brilliantly, beating quite a few of the founders. Next season relegated and the top 5 from season 1 go up. Your club has more resources to get better players so wins the original league in season 2. Up again but however good you get never a founding club. Also season 2 I can’t imagine that you will be well received in the original league club fans. It is similar to what happens with relegation but in this case you get relegated even if you play well. Also are PL going to accept teams going in and out of the official league?
MrsTophamHat · 19/04/2021 21:33

@RogueMNerKnowsNoShame

So if you're a supporter of a club that isn't one of the big 6, isn't this potentially quite exciting news for you? Does it not give more of an opportunity for your club to do well?
The smaller clubs make loads of money from TV when they play the big clubs so no. Brighton v Wolves isn't going to get the same interest as Brighton v Man City. They won't get to see the world class players come to the smaller grounds any more.
LetsGoFlyAKiteee · 19/04/2021 21:35

I like the Champions league..and Europa League! It's fun seeing us play against sides we don't always. And the tension of draws to find out who. It changes everything. For the wrong reasons.

Partey · 19/04/2021 21:36

I’m a Sunderland supporter. I suppose I’ve seen a fair bit of the spectrum due to that and had our fair share of poor ownership.

For me the most galling aspect of it is the working class fan. The ones who spend money on season tickets and travel to away games. Not your corporate boxes or tourists. Take Man City as an example. Second division then mega rich new owner. New stadium absolutely jam packed with corporate add ons. The avid fan will have moved with this, swallowed the additional costs, paid a fortune for the most average of season ticket seats but reaped the rewards in terms of watching Sergio and KDB week in week out. This won’t have been without a struggle and some will have had to stop attending after decades of doing so.

Now to expect them to spend cash travelling to Europe every other bloody week.

It takes football from the communities, the working class and those that have traveled home and away through all the shite.

At best it’s elitism at its finest. At worst it’s a bargaining chip for more cash so they can pay their next forward 400k a week.

I’ll happily stick to watching league one

bentleydrummle · 19/04/2021 21:40

I get it and I understand why it is a big deal

But

I just listened to Oliver Dowden's speech in the commons

Decisive, unequivocal, robust response

Why couldn't they have been that strong at certain points over the last year.....why does it take football for the govt to show actual mettle?

sadeyedladyofthelowlandsea · 19/04/2021 21:41

Genuinely so disappointed by this. I know Man U have been the ones chasing a global audience the most, but they have sold their real fans and history out. Liverpool is the one I am most shocked at tbh, because I never thought they would turn their back on their fans.

Biased? Yes, of course I am. My club, Norwich, won promotion to the PL this weekend. It meant so much to the entire city, not just the players & employees. Queen Delia sang with the fans, one of our players who is a local boy went running out to celebrate (socially distanced) with the crowd, and the feeling within the city has been amazing. Yellow & green everywhere. And we did this on an absolute shoestring of a budget, with no huge investors. Delia & Michael have had TONS of offers over the years to sell to billionaires, but we just don't believe they would ever put the future of the club at risk, because they are fans too.

The loveliest bit of all? After the game on Saturday night, the phone in was devoted to global Canaries who had tuned in to listen & watch from wherever they were in the world. Now THAT is a club. No one is a Norwich fan for the glamour. You're a fan because you love the club and what it stands for.

HalleLouja · 19/04/2021 21:42

Can people stop picking on Arsenal. They have won the FA Cup 4 times in the last 7 years. Spurs on the other hand.....

BoredatHome321 · 19/04/2021 21:45

@sadeyedladyofthelowlandsea

Genuinely so disappointed by this. I know Man U have been the ones chasing a global audience the most, but they have sold their real fans and history out. Liverpool is the one I am most shocked at tbh, because I never thought they would turn their back on their fans.

Biased? Yes, of course I am. My club, Norwich, won promotion to the PL this weekend. It meant so much to the entire city, not just the players & employees. Queen Delia sang with the fans, one of our players who is a local boy went running out to celebrate (socially distanced) with the crowd, and the feeling within the city has been amazing. Yellow & green everywhere. And we did this on an absolute shoestring of a budget, with no huge investors. Delia & Michael have had TONS of offers over the years to sell to billionaires, but we just don't believe they would ever put the future of the club at risk, because they are fans too.

The loveliest bit of all? After the game on Saturday night, the phone in was devoted to global Canaries who had tuned in to listen & watch from wherever they were in the world. Now THAT is a club. No one is a Norwich fan for the glamour. You're a fan because you love the club and what it stands for.

As much as I hate this due to being an Ipswich fan. This is what football is all about, the FANS. Football without fans is nothing..
xTinkerhellx · 19/04/2021 21:57

I've been bitching about this all night.

What's the point of a non competitive league? Our so called 'Top Six' as it stands, 4 who won't even qualify for CL next season. 3 of whom have never won the Champions league (as it is now)

How is that a Super League of Europe?

I feel for the players and coaches who appear to have been blindsided by this and then thrust in front of cameras to explain it.

I love Liverpool because I love football.

I love that Leicester won the league out of nowhere.

I love that West Ham may potentially play in Europe next year.

I even love that Burnley can be the first team to beat us at home in the league in 3 years.

I love that we won the league after 30 fucking years.

I love the unpredictably of football. That the underdogs can come good. That anything can happen.

I love the upsets and the giant killers and the miracle of the cups and the fact that, on paper, none of this should ever happen.

I love that football isn't played on paper.

What the actual fuck is the point of a Super League where it doesn't matter how you play as you will always qualify? Winning will mean nothing as you can never lose.

We want our ball back.

sadeyedladyofthelowlandsea · 19/04/2021 22:04

@BoredatHome321 I know we're supposed to hate one another because of the old farm derby, but can I honestly say I'm gutted to see Ipswich struggle as they have done recently? The fans have been amazing to keep supporting the club - and for me, it's not a season without a derby. I genuinely did think Lambert would bring you straight back up - and I was looking forward to it.

I think clubs like ours mean so much more to their fans, because we're not glamourous clubs. We feel a part of it. So for that, we're both the pride of Anglia.

dreamingbohemian · 19/04/2021 22:08

But the premier league upholds the idea that any team can reach the top

Does it though? In reality?

I feel like there is a very romanticised vision of football vs what it has become in the last 10-20 years

Chloemol · 19/04/2021 22:12

Personally I think if it goes ahead the six should be banned from the uk premier league creating six spaces for clubs to move up the leagues

They can play permanently in their super league then abroad

BoredatHome321 · 19/04/2021 22:14

@sadeyedladyofthelowlandsea it's a depressing time at the moment, big season ahead! One day we'll have the derby again, hopefully sooner rather than later!

Fans are the most important people at a football club hands down. Clubs like Ipswich, Sunderland and Norwich still get the attendance they did/do in league 1 shows how important it is to their fans!

BoredatHome321 · 19/04/2021 22:17

@dreamingbohemian

But the premier league upholds the idea that any team can reach the top

Does it though? In reality?

I feel like there is a very romanticised vision of football vs what it has become in the last 10-20 years

Leicester winning the premier league shows that anybody can win.. West Ham are currently sitting in an European spot, Sheffield United last season were class. It's the excitement of it all. Of course, clubs have more money than others, but the premier league is competitive whereas ESL is not.
NiceGerbil · 19/04/2021 22:23

I have no interest in football and some of the behaviour of the players etc is appalling

That said

Even I'm shocked and angry

This is simple capitalism isn't it. Overseas billionaires have bought them as high profile prestige shows of wealth in part but mainly they see them as assets to capitalise on. The history, the supporters none of that is of any interest. They are there to make as much money as they can however they can.