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Original poster

The Yorkshire shepherdess and the snowflake generation

507 replies

Marcia1989 · 06/04/2021 17:19

www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-9438725/Our-Yorkshire-Farm-star-Amanda-Owen-gave-birth-eighth-child-husband-ASLEEP-upstairs.html

Sorry for link to the Daily Mail. It was the only non-paywalled article but her comments are also reported in The Times and The Telegraph.

She runs a sheep farm in a remote part of Yorkshire and has 9 kids. She thinks that parents do not raise their children to be sufficiently independent, to look after themselves. She didn't really do home-schooling with them because she doesn't want to be a helicopter parent - she expects them to just get on with it. She expects all the kids to help on the farm and they don't really do devices/TV etc. Having watched her TV series, I agree that her kids seem admirably self-sufficient and mature and I do think generally it's really good for children to have some responsibility. But, I do also wonder whether a lack of individual attention is detrimental to them. And there will be some kids who don't get on with it, and is it really right to just leave them to it?

What does everyone think?

OP posts:
Graciebobcat · 07/04/2021 15:16

I do more for my teens than my parents did for me because I don't agree with my parents style of parenting at this age, and I felt unsupported and depressed, and my confidence was really knocked at school. I never told them anything - bullying, sexual harassment at school and had to work everything out for myself. I want my DDs to be able to tell me stuff and be much closer to them.

I'm not a helicopter or attachment parent but believe that kids become resilient not by being bullied and not be able to tell anyone but because of love, stability, and the feeling that someone has their back. I became resilient in spite of my experiences, not because of them.

TatianaBis · 07/04/2021 15:16

@Geamhradh

Don't bother trying to turn this round on me to avoid owning poor behaviour on this thread.

Bitchy in this context is the exactly apt word - criticism that is personal, spiteful and malicious rather than objective and constructive.

Obviously posters don't want to accept how they come across. You hope that if you try and fling mud it will stick.

My take is that she's not criticising other women. It's not personal to you or any woman on this thread, why are you taking it that way?

As a confident person who is comfortable with their parenting, I don't take comments that relate to some within a generation as a personal of criticism of me. Why would I?

derxa · 07/04/2021 15:19

With such an unusual style of parenting It is only unusual on MN

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

Families
RubyFakeLips · 07/04/2021 15:23

Am surprised how much support she seems to have on here! Mumsnet is always critical of large families or any kind of parenting that is fully hands on and involved. I'm not familiar with her or her family as anything about sheep farming in Yorkshire wouldn't fall within my areas of interest.

That being said, I've read the article and had a further google of her. I can't see what she's doing that so revolutionary? I'm one of 8, raised in a London flat rather than a rural setting. Most of what she's doing just seems to be the nature of having a big family.

Graciebobcat · 07/04/2021 15:27

With such an unusual style of parenting It is only unusual on MN

I think you'll find it's fairly unusual to have nine kids and live on a farm, and undertake a parenting style that goes with that. You can't possibly give nine kids equal attention. Most people have the number of kids they can afford and can give proper attention to, which is just fine AFAIC.

Oldbeams · 07/04/2021 15:27

@Graciebobcat

I do more for my teens than my parents did for me because I don't agree with my parents style of parenting at this age, and I felt unsupported and depressed, and my confidence was really knocked at school. I never told them anything - bullying, sexual harassment at school and had to work everything out for myself. I want my DDs to be able to tell me stuff and be much closer to them.

I'm not a helicopter or attachment parent but believe that kids become resilient not by being bullied and not be able to tell anyone but because of love, stability, and the feeling that someone has their back. I became resilient in spite of my experiences, not because of them.

Yes of course - I agree some things about modern parenting are much better than they were in the 70s - but there's a healthy balance to be struck. Lots of children and teens have anxiety now and one (of many reasons) is that although they can negotiate a computer game very successfully, they are not so confident face to face when it comes to making a phone call, or returning something to a shop, or going for an interview. And there are many parents (and I have been guilty of it too on occasion) who try and step in and sort out difficulties on behalf of the child rather than leaving them to work it out for themselves. So DC don't gain the confidence that is acquired through trying and failing and trying again until they get it right.
Graciebobcat · 07/04/2021 15:33

they are not so confident face to face when it comes to making a phone call, or returning something to a shop, or going for an interview. And there are many parents (and I have been guilty of it too on occasion) who try and step in and sort out difficulties on behalf of the child rather than leaving them to work it out for themselves

I was allowed to do things for myself (too many) but wasn't confident in myself in a job interview until my 30s. I still don't really like using the phone and I'm 45. Many adults of my generation and older who were brought up with old fashioned laissez faire parenting styles are not confident to do many of these things in adulthood.

My DDs are 15 and 12 and are exponentially more confident in almost any situation than I was at their age.

derxa · 07/04/2021 15:42

@Graciebobcat

With such an unusual style of parenting It is only unusual on MN

I think you'll find it's fairly unusual to have nine kids and live on a farm, and undertake a parenting style that goes with that. You can't possibly give nine kids equal attention. Most people have the number of kids they can afford and can give proper attention to, which is just fine AFAIC.

Both parents are at home all of the time, two children have effectively flown the nest, others are at school which leaves the youngest ones. Before I went to school, I used to trail after my dad all the time.
mustlovegin · 07/04/2021 15:50

bullying, sexual harassment at school and had to work everything out for myself

Obviously this is different, and even 20 years ago I think most parents would have stepped in.

But I wouldn't have survived the level of suffocation that some parents appear to exert on their children today. I'm sure they mean well and perhaps they think it's what is expected from them, but I'm not sure whether it will be beneficial for their kids (or society) long term

Mrsfrumble · 07/04/2021 16:01

Meh. It’s the Daily Mail, so even if this woman only vaguely hinted at the “snowflake” thing, they’ll have latched on and run with it. Their target audience is a certain type of Boomer who believes the country is going to the dogs and they are the last generation to ever get anything right, so any implication that modern parents and kids are inferior will be their angle.

I’d never heard if her before, but I doubt anyone as successful would be thick and narrow-minded enough to think that one very specific lifestyle was the only to way to raise resilient, independent children.

Namechangeforthis88 · 07/04/2021 16:11

My Dad grew up on a farm with 7 brothers and sisters, a number of whom have struggled with their mental health. 5 of my uncles and aunts had 2 children, 3 have had none at all, and in fact have never had serious long term relationships. Don't think the idyllic, rambunctious, large family in the countryside is the whole story.

CateTown · 07/04/2021 16:35

9 kids on a Yorkshire farm would be some people's idea of heaven and others would find it hell. DD and I definitely fall into the latter category. The weather (most of the year), the smell, the mess, the noise ...

Good luck Amanda!

CuriousaboutSamphire · 07/04/2021 16:54

@Graciebobcat

With such an unusual style of parenting It is only unusual on MN

I think you'll find it's fairly unusual to have nine kids and live on a farm, and undertake a parenting style that goes with that. You can't possibly give nine kids equal attention. Most people have the number of kids they can afford and can give proper attention to, which is just fine AFAIC.

Unless of course you live on a farm, have more than 2 kids and can afford to feed and clothe them.

I live rurally and am surrounded by tenant farmers who do just that!

Taught many of their kids, A levels and degrees too!

Aloethere · 07/04/2021 17:02

@Namechangeforthis88

My Dad grew up on a farm with 7 brothers and sisters, a number of whom have struggled with their mental health. 5 of my uncles and aunts had 2 children, 3 have had none at all, and in fact have never had serious long term relationships. Don't think the idyllic, rambunctious, large family in the countryside is the whole story.
My dad grew up on a council estate with 5 siblings lots of them with mental health issues, 2 of them aren't alive today due to their mental health problems. 2 of them have never had serious long term relationships. My mother had one sibling and grew up in a middle-class suburban family, her sibling has been sectioned due to mental health problems. I'm not really sure what your point is? Mental health issues can occur for a variety of reasons, I don't think there is a correlation between large families in the countryside and mental health problems.
Shortiemyboo · 07/04/2021 17:03

I love her. I think she probably didnt do homeschool as it was too hard/didnt have time!

IrishGirl2020 · 07/04/2021 17:31

@Aloethere
I definitely wouldn’t go so far as to say that large families cause mental health issues - but the parents will have less time and energy to support a child with mental health issues if they have lots of other children. Not just mental health problems but there may be less support available with any type of problem. Not everyone cares about this of course and many feel children should just get on with things and make the best of their situation especially when they become adults.

But I’ve seen this many times in large families (I’m Irish so know a lot of them!) - very few children of large families go on to have large families themselves as they’ve seen first hand how exhausting it is.
But, having said that, Amanda Owen has super human energy reserves by comparison to most people I know so no doubt she’ll do a far better job than most!!

Aloethere · 07/04/2021 18:02

But I’ve seen this many times in large families (I’m Irish so know a lot of them!) - very few children of large families go on to have large families themselves as they’ve seen first hand how exhausting it is.

Do you not think it was more the lack of contraception back then though that led to large families(I'm Irish too and it wasn't made legal here until 1980) and now people have more control over their reproductive choices they have more of an active choice? Do you think if women had access to contraceptives(without the catholic guilt) they would have chosen to have chosen to have 14 kids as my dhs grandparents did for instance?

I don't think it is as simple as you are making out. It isn't as socially acceptable to have 14 kids now for a start. Now there is expectations that kids have a room each. That you go on holidays at least once a year. That you live above the poverty line. Aspirations are different and I would say that that is as much the cause as 'I grew up in a big family and it was shit'.

ameliajanes · 07/04/2021 18:22

My parents grew up in the war, one in a leafy suburb and one in some city centre back to backs. One with 4 siblings and the other with 7 siblings. About the biggest impact it had on them is that neither of them wanted children of their own.

IrishGirl2020 · 07/04/2021 18:25

@Aloethere
Absolutely I agree that it was lack of access to contraception that produced most of those large families. I’m just trying to counteract the narrative that large families are always happy, siblings all get on and parents have enough time and energy for all their children - as it just isn’t true!
Not saying it isn’t true for the Owens but the premise of their show is that life as a farmer with a large family is wonderful and something we should all aspire to - especially if we don’t want to helicopter parent and produce those dreaded ‘snowflake’ children. I know it is just a tv show and carefully edited but I’m just trying to give balance by pointing out that life in a large family is not always idyllic - and very few of us do so nowadays given the choice.

IrishGirl2020 · 07/04/2021 18:32

In fact I think it’s quite telling that Amanda herself was from a small family. Perhaps she just wanted something very different for herself?

If she’d seen some of the large families I have I think she’d probably have changed her mind!!

mermaidsariel · 07/04/2021 18:34

I think the Owens are very unusual in that they are genuinely a happy loving family . I think they have pulled off something pretty remarkable by anyone’s standards. I think it’s due to Annabel and her inexhaustible energy and outlook on life . She is a very unusual woman. Having a large family and running a farm would be hard work and probably more the most of us could manage. That’s the point of the whole thing. We are not supposed to be feeling any mere mortal could do it. I certainly couldn’t.

Graciebobcat · 07/04/2021 19:14

Obviously this is different, and even 20 years ago I think most parents would have stepped in

Not if they didn't know about it because you didn't want to tell them.

MillyMollyMandyish · 07/04/2021 19:21

@ameliajanes

My parents grew up in the war, one in a leafy suburb and one in some city centre back to backs. One with 4 siblings and the other with 7 siblings. About the biggest impact it had on them is that neither of them wanted children of their own.
But they had you? :)
ameliajanes · 07/04/2021 20:05

@millymollymandyish we all make mistakes.

Nanny0gg · 07/04/2021 21:07

@Extremelyilluminated

I am here just to learn what jangling bangles says about a woman Grin What “certain culture”?
I'm guessing Romany/Traveller.