The Yorkshire shepherdess and the snowflake generation

[Marcia1989]

www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-9438725/Our-Yorkshire-Farm-star-Amanda-Owen-gave-birth-eighth-child-husband-ASLEEP-upstairs.html

Sorry for link to the Daily Mail. It was the only non-paywalled article but her comments are also reported in The Times and The Telegraph.

She runs a sheep farm in a remote part of Yorkshire and has 9 kids. She thinks that parents do not raise their children to be sufficiently independent, to look after themselves. She didn't really do home-schooling with them because she doesn't want to be a helicopter parent - she expects them to just get on with it. She expects all the kids to help on the farm and they don't really do devices/TV etc. Having watched her TV series, I agree that her kids seem admirably self-sufficient and mature and I do think generally it's really good for children to have some responsibility. But, I do also wonder whether a lack of individual attention is detrimental to them. And there will be some kids who don't get on with it, and is it really right to just leave them to it?

What does everyone think?

Why can't people recognise and acknowledge other people's success even if that success looks a bit different from our own?
Why do holes have to be picked and judgements made in such a nasty vile way?

I agree BUT...she herself is fairly judgemental of people parenting in a different way and in very different circumstances from her own. She comes across in that article as a superior know-all and I think a lot of people are objecting to that rather than her success and different lifestyle.

Also I'm very uneasy about the romanticizing of giving birth at home completely unattended and miles from the nearest hospital. I know women should be able to make the choices which are right for them but, having had a birth that required medical intervention for the baby to be born safely, I think promoting an isolated, unattended homebirth as a magical experience for women if only they are "tough" enough is a very dangerous message.

@JaniieJones

'This thread is women at their very worst - bitchy, & insecure.'

Don't be so misogynistic. 'Bitchy' is a word to shut up women.

There are valid point raised, why tf should she be allowed to make these awful generalisations about other 'youngsters' without anyone challenging it?!

Nope: bitchy means malicious & spiteful - both men and women can be bitchy. That is the apt word here. The misogyny on this thread is all the women on the thread laying into a woman they have never met.

'Why does it matter to you so much? Why take it so personally? Why get so wound up?'

It's a chat forum? I'm not taking it personally , but to claim anyone is 'insecure' for suggesting yes lovely they've done well but why on earth do they think they are experts on parenting?? Stick to shots of dc climbing on tractors or whatever.

It's a chat forum?

Quite. So all this defensiveness and criticism & spite is truly bizarre.

She also admitted that she does not know the ages of all of her nine children.

At least we know the age of our children! (from The Telegraph not the DM)

Understandably, with, what, eight or nine children and running a big, remote farm, she doesn't have time to help her children with their schoolwork

TBH, I'm not even sure why parents are expected nowadays to get so involved with 'helping' children with their homework. This was not required 20 years ago. Children were required to get on with it

@TatianaBis The misogyny on this thread is all the women on the thread laying into a woman they have never met.

You mean like the original article then? This thread was started because of a Z list 'celebrity' criticising women and she hasn't met.

Having a big brood of kids and expecting the older ones to act as stand in parents and keeping them off school for that purpose. 1950's parenting that was frowned upon even then.

'The misogyny on this thread is all the women on the thread laying into a woman they have never met'

Oh, so you need to meet someone to have an opinion? Who knew. So by that rationale you won't have an opinion on Trump as you've never met him. Right.

This family are on numerous TV programmes, sm, in magazine articles, newspapers etc. She is voicing her opinion that today's youngsters have no independence or work ethic so yes true I've never met her but I will object to such drivel. HTH.

@Lantanacamara

I used to like them and read her books etc but it now just seems to me that Amanda is set to do what she wants and everyone else just has to toe the line. Raven was always described as "the one who looks after the children" and in the books it said that Amanda used to keep her off school to help her look after the youngest ones so that she could go up into the hills. Yes, they have a lovely looking life from the outside, but are they great parents? I don't think so. They say they don't encourage homework, extra curricular activities (a few of them playing brass instruments in one of the programmes was so staged) and one of their newborns had to stay in SCBU and the parents didn't even visit it for a week!

They are being prepared for a life of farming and nothing else. Which is fine if they want to do that but if they don't it seems tough luck. They have 8/9 kids in a 3 bed, with squalor conditions. If they were living in a council estate people's opinions about them would be very different!
Raven is definitely not doing medicine and she's not at York, IIRC she got 3 Cs.

@Lantanacamara you are wrong Raven most definitely is doing BIOMEDICAL SCIENCE at York. I know for a fact she is at York - funnily enough where my brother is also. So she is NOT being prepared to be a farmer 🙄 The eldest son is now a mechanic apprentice- so again he IS NOT BEING PREPARED FOR FARMING!

And they have a four bed not a three bed. The extended a few years back.

So perhaps next time get facts straight before being so judgmental.

@JaniieJones
Yes completely agree. Really like her tv programs but don’t like hearing that all today’s youngsters can’t do anything for themselves. It’s irritating, smug but also untrue.
All the 18 year olds I know seem perfectly capable of navigating the world - at uni or holding down a job or both. It’s probably a tiny minority that fit that ‘snowflake’ description.
And lots of kids get plenty of outdoor time even living in a city like we do. Isn’t that one of the main reasons people go away at weekends or go on holiday or day trips - to be able spend the whole day outside letting the kids have some freedom?
We’re not all keeping our kids indoors on screens 24/7 - I wonder if Amanda knows many other families to suggest such a thing?

Oh, so you need to meet someone to have an opinion? Who knew. So by that rationale you won't have an opinion on Trump as you've never met him. Right.

Well yeah. While highly critical of Trump's actual policies, even then I've never sat on a thread criticising his parenting as who could actually bothered?

I also read the the Farming Union or some such body spoke out against them. Whilst jumping off high hay bales and swimming in tarns seems like a lot of fun they are dangerous practices which bring the reputation of farmi g (which is one of the most dangerous occupations) into disrepute.

@mustlovegin

Understandably, with, what, eight or nine children and running a big, remote farm, she doesn't have time to help her children with their schoolwork

TBH, I'm not even sure why parents are expected nowadays to get so involved with 'helping' children with their homework. This was not required 20 years ago. Children were required to get on with it

Let's see, the fact that we're in a pandemic and schools were closed for months at a time, leaving younger children in particular with the choice of being homeschooled by parents with some teacher input, or nothing?

Older children may be able to get on with things alone, but I can assure you that my 8 year old still needed help when his school was closed.

I too was of the generation that were 'required to get on with it'. That's why I actually help my own child. And I have one child because being the eldest of seven children in a household barely keeping its head above water was not the best way to grow up.

Freedom? Sure. Responsibility? In spades. Individual attention from parents? Almost nil.

@mustlovegin

Understandably, with, what, eight or nine children and running a big, remote farm, she doesn't have time to help her children with their schoolwork

TBH, I'm not even sure why parents are expected nowadays to get so involved with 'helping' children with their homework. This was not required 20 years ago. Children were required to get on with it

Err, because these days we understand that children do better at school when they have interested and involved parents. I don't think that is a bad thing. it doesn't mean micro managing either, but simply reading a story every night, playing snakes and ladders with a primary school child who struggles with maths (true story, it was recommended for my youngest), giving up half an hour of your evening to do something that benefits your child. Old fashioned values like children should be seen and not heard, are not always the best.

Good for her. I personally would hate living on a farm in Yorkshire with 9 children.

I agree with her that children should be encouraged to be independent and self-sufficient. However the term snowflake really riles me, everyone is doing their best surely? Her way of life is unimaginable for most people. I've family who were in sheep farming and it looks fabulous but it's incredibly difficult to make a sustainable income from. Not to mention seriously hard graft. I suspect her books and TV are a significant part of their income.

Err, because these days we understand that children do better at school when they have interested and involved parents. I don't think that is a bad thing. it doesn't mean micro managing either, but simply reading a story every night, playing snakes and ladders with a primary school child who struggles with maths (true story, it was recommended for my youngest), giving up half an hour of your evening to do something that benefits your child. Old fashioned values like children should be seen and not heard, are not always the best.

Interesting that half the posters on here are criticising the Owens for working their kids alongside them on the farm as 'free labour' The other half are suggesting that they're uninvolved 🤷‍♀️

I certainly wouldn't suggest that they are of the 'seem and not heard' ilk.

@queenofarles

I can't help but think that if Amanda was overweight and uglier and wore overalls rather than the clothes she chooses to wear, that the attitudes towards her would be very different No doubt about it, add to that just how lax they were with homeschooling /not attending any school meetings. Anyone else would have been called all kind of names.

Place Amanda in the middle of a sink estate with an older husband and 9 kids running free range, no input into their schooling, not fussed about homeschooling and the range of responses would be quite different again... Mumsnet is not usually so kind to men who have fathered 11 children either.

Dobby Amanda calm the hell down. I don't know them personally, I'm going by what THEY put out about themselves. Raven used to have York St John in her bio, so I'm not assuming anything. Regardless, I don't get care where she goes, I'm just delighted she got away! She used to side eye Amanda in the programmes as if there was real animosity between them.
When I said they are being prepared for a life of farming I meant that is all they are exposed to and by their own admission they do not encourage academics at all.
Great that they have an extra bedroom now, the house is still greatly overcrowded though and looked filthy in the programmes.

I didn't say they Owens were of the seen and not heard ilk. I said such old- fashioned values are not always the best in terms of raising children in response to a poster who said 20 years ago children were just supposed to get on with it.

@Lantanacamara

I also read the the Farming Union or some such body spoke out against them. Whilst jumping off high hay bales and swimming in tarns seems like a lot of fun they are dangerous practices which bring the reputation of farmi g (which is one of the most dangerous occupations) into disrepute.

Yeah, but all kids brought up on farms with tarns and hay bales will do that, and more.

When you've stacked the bales yourself it seems less fraught with danger.

When you walk into the tarn and don't leap in you don't get the same body shock, wild swimmers do it all the time!

Notice they didn't say that kids driving tractors, milking cows, rounding up sheep, driving ATCs, helping with drenching, birthing, shearing etc were also dangerous! That's because almost all farm kids work. From as soon as they show willing and are capable!

Last college I worked at had an Aggie dept. The farm bred kids were amazing. Gobby, opinionated, hard working, knowledgeable and all there with an aim in mind.

Students in other depts not so much. They were very much a different breed!

I was born and bred in a major city. Spent 10 years of my childhood on a remote farm or two and now, after ears in another city, live in farming country again. The difference between city and farm kids is quite striking (not all in one direction). It's little things like small tasks, daily stuff. Farm kids just get it done to get on with other stuff. At home they have no real choice!

And those of us criticising Amanda for not being terribly involved in her children's education is in response to her ACTUALLY SAYING she wasn't involved in her children's education. We're not suggesting anything, she said it!

Place Amanda in the middle of a sink estate with an older husband and 9 kids running free range, no input into their schooling, not fussed about homeschooling and the range of responses would be quite different again... Mumsnet is not usually so kind to men who have fathered 11 children either. That assumes she would make the same decisions!

She did what she did because of the choices she made, the opportunities she had.

Life isn't one size fits all!

*Let's see, the fact that we're in a pandemic and schools were closed for months at a time, leaving younger children in particular with the choice of being homeschooled by parents with some teacher input, or nothing?

Older children may be able to get on with things alone, but I can assure you that my 8 year old still needed help when his school was closed.*

Lots and lots of us actually had to work throughout the pandemic and couldn't be as hands on as we might have liked when it came to homeschooling. I only have 2 children but has to do 12hr days working from home running a business during the first lockdowns. She isn't unique in not having time to hover over her children whilst they were homeschooling. As far as I can tell from this thread the children had ipads,they had the tools there, I am sure if they needed help with something someone would try their best. I sometimes told my eldest to help my youngest for a few mins. That is called being a family and pulling together it isn't a failing to ask your kids to help out. Everyone kids included are part of our family here and as part of the family you do your bit to help the family run smoothly.

@krustykittens

And those of us criticising Amanda for not being terribly involved in her children's education is in response to her ACTUALLY SAYING she wasn't involved in her children's education. We're not suggesting anything, she said it!

Yes SHE wasn't involved. Not that NOBODY was involved.