Would you judge someone for having a third child now?

[Somanythingsonmywindowsill]

Would love a third child, can afford it and think on balance it will benefit our two young DC. DH is equally keen

But I can't help worrying that it would be wrong for environmental reasons etc and wonder if others would think that if we did have a third DC. I do also worry about whether it would take time and resources from existing children if things suddenly majorly changed, though we have life insurance and illness cover etc and are otherwise financially stable

On more anxious moments I even wonder about a dystopian future where third or later children had to be handed over to the state - but of course I know I'm being ridiculous really

@BackforGood

When they are little they are cheap to run, but can you afford 3 lots of university accommodation, 3 lots of driving lessons etc?

But I don't pay those things. As adults, my dc pay for those things (albeit the accommodation through a student maintenance loan). Each of my dc paid for their own driving lessons from their earning through part time jobs.
Hardly something to be making a decision about whether to have another child over. They might not even want to go to University. Or funding might be completely different then.

🙌 exactly. Not every child wants to go to uni. My lot will be funding their own driving lessons etc.

Thank you, I really appreciate all these comments. I think on balance we'd probably decide not to for all the reasons given, although we really would love to. It's a tough one. I suppose the environmental concerns are the most difficult to overcome, although I recognise the problems with a decreasing population I agree that the answer isn't to just keep expanding either.

Re uni etc we could afford to put three through now, (based on calculations from money websites) but then wouldn't have any savings to help them with house deposits etc (although by then we hopefully would if saving at current rate, that obviously assumes though we stay together which I hope we would and that our financial position doesn't change badly) and also we probably need to focus a bit on our pensions and paying off mortgage too so that we know we're sorted out as well. Early to mid 30s though so lots of time for us hopefully to save. It's so hard to know at what point three are comfortably affordable. We have a three bed (double rooms) although plan to move somewhere slightly bigger in about five years, or we could probably do a loft conversion. We wouldn't be having another for a couple of years or so if we did.

I worry though about being able to get them to hobbies, and to be able to afford everything they need. I can't imagine what a food bill would look like!

I have a third child, and when people make comments about the environment, I explain that we have carbon offset against my brother in law, who only has one.

How very convenient. Did your brother in law get any say in this arrangement?

I don't have children (not by choice) but would be absolutely fucking livid if I suspected my sibling thought they could offset their (frankly ridiculous number of) children by benefitting from my unwanted childless status.

If it gets offset against anything, it will be my choice as to what that is, not someone else's. The environment needs more people to have fewer children, not for others to come along opportunistically and decide to have even more offspring because they happen to know someone who has none or only one.

Playing that zero sum game with the planet is just going to result in everybody's children losing.

@smeerf

The thing that is stopping me from having a third is the chance of something going wrong. I have a perfect little family with two healthy babies and I recovered from birth very well. What if we decide to have a third and something goes wrong, the baby is disabled and needs care, I suffer birth injuries or worse?

This is why we don’t have a third.

Three isn’t really a “big” family. I wouldn’t be concerned at all about having a third if you want one.

@Somanythingsonmywindowsill - As a childless person I find it really refreshing to come across someone who reflects on the impact of having children beyond simply considering their own wants.

(Sorry if that sounds sanctimonious, but it does get a bit old hearing how simply lovely it would be to increase #ourlittlefamily by having that fourth sibling for Hugo, Petunia and Wayne, and sod the planet.)

@blowinahoolie

"Until the world becomes dangerously overcrowded, and then everyone is miserable."

Wondermule we need more of a population, not less. Have you looked at the volume of elderly people in our population? Who will care for all these people?? Robots?

So the answer is to have more children, who will then themselves become elderly, and the cycle continues until the world is filled to the rafters? What you’re suggesting is incredibly short sighted.

@5zeds

Three isn’t really a “big” family. I wouldn’t be concerned at all about having a third if you want one.

If everyone did that it would increase the number of humans by 50% in one generation which makes for a pretty bloody huge global "family".

But everyone DOESN’T @LemonMeringueThreePointOneFour if everyone had none there’d be no humans left in less than a century.

I certainly wouldn't judge anyone for having 3. I have 1 wonderful daughter and wish I could have 3 of her! Unfortunately it's not to be. if I hadn't been such an old lady when I had her I would have gone on to have 1 or 2 more. Good luck!

@LemonMeringueThreePointOneFour

I have a third child, and when people make comments about the environment, I explain that we have carbon offset against my brother in law, who only has one.

How very convenient. Did your brother in law get any say in this arrangement?

I don't have children (not by choice) but would be absolutely fucking livid if I suspected my sibling thought they could offset their (frankly ridiculous number of) children by benefitting from my unwanted childless status.

If it gets offset against anything, it will be my choice as to what that is, not someone else's. The environment needs more people to have fewer children, not for others to come along opportunistically and decide to have even more offspring because they happen to know someone who has none or only one.

Playing that zero sum game with the planet is just going to result in everybody's children losing.

Amen.

There have been some pretty stupid posts on here. But that one took the biscuit.

I’d judge someone for trying to dictate how many children someone else had.

Don’t think anyone is dictating 🙄. Last time I checked we are allowed to hold opinions...remember learning about population growth in geography at school and it freaked me out from then!

"What you’re suggesting is incredibly short sighted."

Your suggestion unfortunately doesn't help in the long term either though, does it? Who will care for an ageing population? A population that lives longer than it has ever done in previous decades? We need the young to look after the old. There's no other way 🤷

My brother has no children through choice. I have four. There are many who can't or won't have children so it does balance out, or in some cases the population starts to dwindle. This causes great concerns. The elderly need to be cared for in their dotage. One day that will be all of us. To limit family sizes is a terrible idea.

@Doomsdayiscoming - did you mean mine, or the one I quoted?

Well obviously, but what are the chances of that happening?!

Don’t think anyone is dictating 🙄. Last time I checked we are allowed to hold opinions. of course. You can hold the opinion, I can judge you for it.

No I wouldn’t judge at all

Judge Thomas Maltheus then it’s his theory! Remember learning about this in human geography at school it’s worried me since then. And his concerns were pre climate change. It’s not thoughtless “judging” 🙄 of individuals but genuine concern. Still maybe you are all right and it’s all “fine” because your brother doesn’t have kids or something etc. I really hope you are right and not me!

Those who are a no on environmental grounds, are you environmentally conscious generally ie avoiding long haul, electric or less cars etc? I'm not trying to contend your argument, which I largely agree with, on those grounds because clearly an extra person and their possible descendants have a far far greater carbon load than any of the other measures we could take to reduce our impact but I'm interested in whether this view on family size generally corresponds with being environmentally conscious in other ways

I do find it hard to get perspective on whether uni fees etc are worth worrying about if the future is already as bleak climate wise as some predict, it all feels hard to gauge

OP do you have the same desire to have a third child as you did to have your first and second?

For me this was quite telling. I definitely had a long time (a couple of years) around my 40th year when the idea of a third child was very much up for debate. My partner was not pushing for it but was happy to try if it's what I wanted. And I often thought it was but when it came to it i never could take the plunge.

I had too much holding me back - a growing age gap between the eldest and any third (it would have been almost 7 years plus at the point we thought about trying for a third), the worries about the unpredictability of conceiving/ carrying / birthing another child, worrying about moving to a coping situation rather than a happy and settled one if we add a third child, worry about multiples (a higher risk with fertility treatments), etc.

I didn't feel that way with my previous pregnancies and desires for another child. I have been pregnany more than twice and have needed fertility treatments to get pregnant. I have two children which I way more than I event dreamt I would at one time.

In my case i think it was a combo of my youngest growing up and my own age and hormone shift that led to the issue coming up at all.

If I had my time again, I may have pushed on for a third much sooner but at the time the thought of having 3 under 5 was not good as mine were both v poor sleepers. Had I had my first when I was late 20s, a larger age gap between 3 or even 4 wouldn't have felt so bad. And maybe if I had conceived and birthed easily each time with no losses I may have had that third with no hesitation.

But ultimately it was self awareness that I would be a less good mum to three children and my DP would be a less good Dad because of the additional emotional capacity etc needed.

The image of me as a Grandma with four or five adult children and who knows how many grandchildren does appeal (environmental concerns aside) but in the short and medium term it is not right for our family to grow to that size.

I do think environmental concerns have to be a consideration when having a family. Where to draw the line on family size feels harder to say.
I think we have to have other ways of providing for an ageing population beyond just making more people. A better taxation system would be a start.

Same desire, but it is tempered by wanting to be realistic financially and with time as don't want existing DC to suffer in any way and also the environmental reasons. I'm not particularly worried about coping in the short term with three small children (my eldest never slept through until 2.5 and still often doesn't so quite used to the sleep disturbance) although in the longer term I realise three teenagers is a different ball game!

Apart from trying to do the right thing by the environment there is a selfish element in that I wouldn't want my DC, especially a third, to feel that there was too many of them or to question our integrity as parents by choosing to add to the population

Aside from these things though yes, I'd love to have another

I didn’t realise having a third DC was such a thing until I read so many threads like these. Where I live 3 is really common, so many families have two quite close together and then wait about 4 to 5 years and then have a third. They all seem to be happy families.

@NeedToGetOuttaHere me neither, I've never heard it mentioned off mumsnet/in media articles I've actually searched for

If I hadn't read it here some time ago, I'd probably have been unaware and probably have decided yes to a third, rightly or wrongly