Students thrown off course for throwing a party.

[Cotbedy]

Basically, a load of students held a party of around 16/17 people. They got reported, they all got a £400 fine, apart from the host who got a £10,000 fine.

Then their Uni kicked them all off their courses for bringing the Uni into disrepute.

I think this is probably a fair and reasonable punishment, but DP thinks the Uni have gone too far and they're being unfair.

I'm curious to hear others' thoughts on the matter! Fair or unreasonable?

Good. I live in a very studenty area of a university town and their behaviour during the pandemic has been a real risk to local people.

OhWhyNot

I think it’s harsh

Most of us on here are way past the time when socialising every weekend and making new friends was so important In our lives (I know not everyone when through this phase) to have that taken away plus everything else has been really hard on them“

Our 18 year old has been stuck at home for a year now, protecting CEV dad.
He wouldn’t dream of breaking the law.

Most students have been fantastic and complied with all that’s been asked of them. I imagine they’re all pretty pissed off with the irresponsible few who make headlines and drag everyone’s reputation down with them.

I'm in two minds here. Anyone who organised the party and/or attended knowing why it was wrong and not caring does deserve to be kicked off their course. However, there's an awful lot of peer pressure at university, and it's plausible that some of the people who attended didn't actually want to be there, but felt coerced. If that's true, they're not the sort of people who will cope well with being removed from their education.

I guess as long as the university has actually investigated this properly and kicked out 'troublemakers' only, then I agree with it.

There's no way I would have attended a COVID party as I strongly disagree with it and I've taken a super cautious approach to the pandemic. But who here did something at university that they didn't really want to do, but went along with anyway? I grew up at university, but I didn't finish growing up there. It took me another 5 to 10 years to learn that it was OK to say no and that it didn't matter what anyone thought of me, as long as I could live with my decisions.

University is... thoroughly unpleasant sometimes. It's a grown-up version of Lord of the Flies. I just worry some people have been caught up in this mess who might deserve more pastoral support and a second chance.

I think the uni have gone too far but they are despicable places generally and exercise too much control over adults...who sign contracts agreeing to it.

What a world.

@GreenlandTheMovie

I think its too harsh. Their lives are changed forever due to one stupid mistake resulting in a £400 fine.

We live in unprecedented times where young people have been locked away for over a year, the decisions being made by people who have enjoyed the same period of their lives without any such restrictions. Its stressful to be denied this period of your life.

A lesser penalty (eg suspension for a year) would have worked just as well. Its obvious that a message is being sent out, but give that we are near the end of the pandemic and that most students are ignoring the rules now anyway, whats the point?

Most students aren't ignoring the rules. We're not near the end of the pandemic.

It looks likely that students will be returning to campus after Easter for the final term. Very few of them will have been vaccinated. Most of the staff won't have had their second jab (many wouldn't have even had their first). Unis need to send a strong message to students that they need to follow rules for the Summer term, otherwise covid will spread like wildfire across campuses again and what little face to face teaching and what few amenities that open will end up closed again.

The majority of students who are behaving deserve to be protected from their course mates and flat mates! The Uni has an obligation to protect their staff and students. Turning a blind eye to serious law/rule breaking isn't the way to do that.

I know someone who was fined £10k for having a party at uni and although it’s reported in the papers that they were thrown off their course in fact they weren’t. The uni just warned them not to do it again and then uni rang the parents to discuss the implications and what would happen next time.

I think it's completely and utterly unreasonable.

They've been fined. That should be the end.

Universities are private businesses and are entitled to make their own rules, and therefore can permanently exclude people who break them. Whether it's fair or not is another matter, of course.

It's a bit like how private schools are entitled to permanently exclude students and wash their hands of them, whereas state schools students who are expelled must be found places elsewhere by the council.

Similarly, my old private school would "ask you to leave" for good if you became pregnant while attending, for example, whereas that's not allowed in state schools. Similarly if you were caught with drugs or smoking on school grounds, you would be permanently excluded.

@mcclucky

I'm in two minds here. Anyone who organised the party and/or attended knowing why it was wrong and not caring does deserve to be kicked off their course. However, there's an awful lot of peer pressure at university, and it's plausible that some of the people who attended didn't actually want to be there, but felt coerced. If that's true, they're not the sort of people who will cope well with being removed from their education.

I guess as long as the university has actually investigated this properly and kicked out 'troublemakers' only, then I agree with it.

There's no way I would have attended a COVID party as I strongly disagree with it and I've taken a super cautious approach to the pandemic. But who here did something at university that they didn't really want to do, but went along with anyway? I grew up at university, but I didn't finish growing up there. It took me another 5 to 10 years to learn that it was OK to say no and that it didn't matter what anyone thought of me, as long as I could live with my decisions.

University is... thoroughly unpleasant sometimes. It's a grown-up version of Lord of the Flies. I just worry some people have been caught up in this mess who might deserve more pastoral support and a second chance.

The only students I'd feel sorry for are any who were living in the flat/hall concerned who wasn't actually part of the party, i.e. stayed in their own room throughout. Hopefully the police and Uni security would check the facts to ensure that no one in that position as been fined nor thrown out.

Peer pressure is a fact of life I'm afraid. If someone has gone to a different flat/hall for a party, then they simply didn't need to do that and have to be accountable for their own actions.

Unless there had been repeated breaking of Uni rules by the same group of people, I think it's unreasonable. They'd already been punished with a fine. What good will it do to prevent them from getting an education? And I doubt the Uni will refund their fees, so they - or their parents - will be in debt for nothing.

It’s too harsh.

Students get such a hard time on MN. These are likely barely adults, 18 year olds who are having a tough time, away from home and virtually imprisoned in halls.

They’ve been fined which is punishment enough.

No that’s too harsh. The fine is enough and perhaps a warning.

Fucking ridiculous how many have lost the plot and bay for blood over a virus that 97% of people survive.

Whether people think it’s reasonable or not, actions have consequences. Sometimes those consequences are “fair” and sometimes they are not. Not a bad lesson for anyone to learn.

I worked in the Courts during the riots. There were cases where a young person ventured out, out of curiosity mainly. And stole something minor, like a can of coke was one case. Got 9 months in prison. A moment of stupidity and something that would never normally attract a prison sentence. But the Courts were sending out a message.

Everyone has free will. If you do something you know is against a particular rule/law, you take your chances. If the consequences turn out to be greater than what you expected it’s just tough luck! That’s life.

Which uni?

Fines, yes.
Being thrown off their courses, no.

MPs and MSPs are keeping their cushy jobs after breaking the rules.
Everyone around me breaking the rules are keeping their jobs.

Yet they want to hold teenagers to account to such extremes and life-changing consequences.

These threads are always started by name changers that have a friend of a friend in the police, army, front line NHS or the Cabinet

Far far too harsh
I really feel for them and their parents

@C152

Unless there had been repeated breaking of Uni rules by the same group of people, I think it's unreasonable. They'd already been punished with a fine. What good will it do to prevent them from getting an education? And I doubt the Uni will refund their fees, so they - or their parents - will be in debt for nothing.

I suspect it's all covered under the terms and conditions when you sign up.

Of course, COVID laws may not have been mentioned but many universities won't allow you to attend if you're caught breaking the law and fined or sentenced.

For example, my old university has this in their student handbook/terms of conduct:

8.4 The following are examples of misconduct:

(15) conduct which constitutes a criminal offence or other anti-social behaviour, where that conduct:

(a) took place on University premises, or
(b) affected or concerned other members of the University community, or
(c) damages or is likely to damage the good name of the University, or
(d) itself constitutes misconduct within the terms of this Code, or
(e) is an offence of dishonesty, where the student holds an office of responsibility in the University;

Basically, if you break the law and put the university into "disrepute" or commit an offence on university property, they can kick you out as you've broken your side of the contract.

If you break your side of the contract, you're still liable for any fees due.

Students get such a hard time on MN. These are likely barely adults, 18 year olds who are having a tough time, away from home and virtually imprisoned in halls.

I used to work with university students. The vast majority of them were absolutely fabulous - intelligent, motivated, socially responsible young people, who I really enjoyed working with. There was always a small minority of students, though, who were selfish, irresponsible and anti-social. Unfortunately, the entire student body was sometimes blamed for their bad behaviour, which I always felt was really unfair.

I believe that most of the students in my town are sensible, considerate and responsible. They are being careful, following the rules and lots of them are volunteering to help vulnerable people in the local community. All credit to them. The ones who are holding illegal parties are the irresponsible minority, and it isn't fair to suggest that this is just "normal" student behaviour.

The police didn't lose their jobs when they were having haircuts and breakfast in the cafe in London, one rule for one...

It's so unfair

No one is respecting the lockdown, people have "bubbles" allowing sleepovers and visitors, "key workers" have abused the school system, the royal family have consistently flouted all the guidelines and rules!

It should be the same proportional punishment. Adults have no consequences, and students get kicked out?

They shouldn't be congratulated, but it's too harsh. Start asking the royal family to lead by example maybe?

I don't think this is reasonable, it's disproportionate, and applied inconsistently. The basis of this type of punishment should be about consistency and fairness. It clearly isn't fair that celebrities/politicians break the rules with little or no consequence, but a significant consequence for students. A fine is sufficient.

If you google, you’ll see a number of these instances going back to September. So if this happened recently, then they were warned. These are supposed to be university students, so in theory should be adults and intelligent enough to understand the current situation in the country as well as why there are covid restrictions.

So with that says, harsh but fair.

Also , how clear are universities about rules and consequences, other than course specific consequences eg for doctors some other professions. I'm willing to bet not very, even in a good year, and probably not at all this year, other than including it in the reams of paperwork sent from all directions in week 1- and all by email. Actually, although the students were stupid to do this, 18 year olds often are, and this year they've had an awful time at university.