Students thrown off course for throwing a party.

[Cotbedy]

Basically, a load of students held a party of around 16/17 people. They got reported, they all got a £400 fine, apart from the host who got a £10,000 fine.

Then their Uni kicked them all off their courses for bringing the Uni into disrepute.

I think this is probably a fair and reasonable punishment, but DP thinks the Uni have gone too far and they're being unfair.

I'm curious to hear others' thoughts on the matter! Fair or unreasonable?

@Miljea

Remind me whether Dominic Cummings lost his job over his Covid rules breaking?

🤔

The hypocrisy is strong with this one.

This was discussed upthread. It's not the same thing IMO.

@Brunt0n

A valuable lesson in not breaking the law surely?

Like the valuable lesson Cummings learned? Oh. Not that one.

Brunt0n A valuable lesson in not breaking the law surely?

A valuable lesson is one which teaches you not to do it again surely, not one which disproportionately destroys your hopes and dreams for what is, in criminal terms, a minor misdemenour.

I hate these disproportionate penalties. Proportionality is a big part of EU law, and its sad to see these hard-to-predict excessive responses begin in the midst of such loss of human rights for the past year.

So because Cummings was protected by our hypocritical PM, No one should ever face consequences for breaking the law? Or for breaking the terms of a contract? Do you not see how ridiculous that logic is?

Having to apply to another uni is not the same as having your hopes and dreams destroyed.

@ReceptacleForTheRespectable

Having to apply to another uni is not the same as having your hopes and dreams destroyed.

University entry (and funding) isn't quite as simple as that...

Losing a year, even if a student did get in to exactly the same course as before, could cost upwards of £20,000. Thats quite a disproportionate penalty for what, in criminal terms, is a very minor misdemenour dealt with by a £200 fine. Its far too harsh a penalty to have any educational benefit - it is more likely to create a sense of injustice and being treated unfairly by society, which can be more problematic in the long run.

What penalties have the professional footballers faced? Pop stars? Cricketers?

Everytime someone gets in their car they have 'the potential to kill people'

And a reckless or drunk driver would quite rightly receive at least a fine and very likely at least a temporary driving ban - which could significantly affect their job opportunities.

I don't think students should be expelled for every minor breach of the rules, but if they repeatedly have parties and disregard warnings, they forfeit quite a lot of sympathy.

There have been a few incidents that have resulted in fines at this university.

Why these students and not others who have done the exact same thing

@ReceptacleForTheRespectable

So because Cummings was protected by our hypocritical PM, No one should ever face consequences for breaking the law? Or for breaking the terms of a contract? Do you not see how ridiculous that logic is?

The consequences in law is a fine

@Bythemillpond

There have been a few incidents that have resulted in fines at this university.

Why these students and not others who have done the exact same thing

Probably because it was a repeat offence. Where I work, the regulations say that there will be a warning for an initial offence but more severe penalties for repeated breaches. Students are well aware of this.

You seem to think that students should be allowed to get away with repeatedly breaking the law on university premises because they are paying. Money doesn’t buy you the right to behave just however you like, regardless of the law and other people’s safety. The security staff where I work have been extremely upset at being put in the position of having to break up parties. They are almost all at higher risk because of age and sex. At one university, security staff were spat at by a student when they tried to break up a party.

Parties are for 'celebrities' and footballers not students, we all know that.

It doesn't make sense people comparing to footballers etc, if it was in their university contract and they were aware of the consequences then the punishment is acceptable. You don't have to attend the uni if you don't like the rules. All workplaces would have different rules around what is acceptable, ie some work places wouldn't bat an eyelid if you got charged criminally for some minor charge outside of work, other places you would automatically lose your job.

Whether anyone thinks it is disproportionate is irrelevant, they would have been fully aware of what would happen. It is quite pathetic the excuses being made for 18-20 yos, to say they are just babies etc really does explain many problems with our young adults. Of course they can make crap decisions etc but seriously where do you draw the line on that one? A worldwide pandemic is hardly something they don't understand the seriousness of.

Agreed money doesn't buy immunity but the government have set a poor example with the barnyard castle trip. The students have been fined but take away their course is heartless no matter what their age. In only rare examples would people lose their jobs if they broke the law

Celebrities often don't get fines though as they use the excuse of work.

www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-9335795/Megan-Barton-Hanson-confronted-police-Southend-denies-breaking-lockdown-rules.html

I think it's totally fair. I'm at university and we are repeatedly being told we can be thrown off the course for breaking covid rules. This isn't unique to my course either as the emails are university wide.

You might not agree with the rules but every single student is well aware of what they are and still decided to go ahead and break them. So from that perspective I think it's absolutely right they got thrown off, otherwise it's just empty threats from the university.

And I don't think it's fair to say "ahh but so and so did it so it's fine for them". Well, no, actually, it's not. It's piss poor example from the higher ups and we've a right to be frustrated when they do break the rules. But, one person or group of people breaking the law doesn't make it okay for others. Otherwise where do you draw the line on what's right and what's wrong?

Plus MPs don't set the rules at university, the universities do that themselves. The students would have to be living in the land of tin foil hats to not know exclusion is a possible consequence of a house party.

It reminds me a bit of the mums refusing to tell their child off or punish them in any way saying 'aww, but they're only babies' - when their toddlers or preschool age child has dragged another child along by it's hair or knocked them over and stolen the toy they were playing with.

@Bythemillpond

There have been a few incidents that have resulted in fines at this university.

Why these students and not others who have done the exact same thing

Because the others have learned from it and not just done the same thing again after being caught.

No one is getting chucked out of Uni for a first offence.

The fact that the university has cited damage to its reputation is laudable in itself . The way students have been treated this year is a disgrace . I am continually amazed they are not protesting in the street. They have been forced to pay £9000 for a course which is substandard . And before lecturers get on here and tell me they have never worked harder. That is not my criticism.A lot of students have had no or very little Face to face lectures no access to libraries, student union ,labs or other student amenities . A lot of which attracted them to the uni in the first place. If you paid for a holiday and when you got there realised all the pools gym etc was closed would you be happy to pay full price (oh and here is the sunshine but you can’t go out in it you have to watch it on screen). Yet this is what we are offering students. If we want adults to respect rules and be respective and participate in the correct manner in society . We have to do the same to them and recognise the unfairness of the situation for them by offering fee reductions or discounts on masters/PHD’s , rent rebates etc . Instead we tell them to suck it up and not complain and then wonder why they rebel . I think before we criticise their behaviour we should look at our own

No it's fucking draconian. This age group doesn't really suffer much with covid, they're not going home to spread it around if they are carrying it.

Yes. Fine them if they must (I'd be Very interested to know where all that money is going). But to kick them off the course if fucking dictatorial. So instead of allowing their degree education (thus turning out a qualified useful worker drone) they've clipped their wings and maybe added to the benefit pile. 🙄🙄🙄

No it's fucking draconian. This age group doesn't really suffer much with covid, they're not going home to spread it around if they are carrying it.

Oh, well as long as they're not going home to their parents. Fuck the security staff who have been abused and spat at when they're tried to break up student parties. They're not naice middle-class parents.

@PugInTheHouse

It doesn't make sense people comparing to footballers etc, if it was in their university contract and they were aware of the consequences then the punishment is acceptable. You don't have to attend the uni if you don't like the rules. All workplaces would have different rules around what is acceptable, ie some work places wouldn't bat an eyelid if you got charged criminally for some minor charge outside of work, other places you would automatically lose your job.

Whether anyone thinks it is disproportionate is irrelevant, they would have been fully aware of what would happen. It is quite pathetic the excuses being made for 18-20 yos, to say they are just babies etc really does explain many problems with our young adults. Of course they can make crap decisions etc but seriously where do you draw the line on that one? A worldwide pandemic is hardly something they don't understand the seriousness of.

And students of coutse have so much bargaining power in their contracts with the university, don't they? Contributing to te terms of conditions, benefitting from independent legal advice, etc before they part with thousands of pounds? No, of course they don't.

And why on earth wouldn't teaching students the values of proportionality and fairness be a good idea? Unless yiu want to grow a generation of despotic, tinpot dictators.

So if students convicted of a crime gets kicked out, is this also true of road traffic offences like speeding?

It triggers a disciplinary process which looks at the conviction and also the course.

A conviction or caution for a violent offence will see a student removed from a teaching or nursing degree because, amongst other things, the student will not be able to get placements or work in those areas after graduation.

It might not be appropriate for other courses eg drama or art.

Harris Manchester College actively recruits people on individual merit including exoffenders.

Just out of interest, do people think that repeat offences should simply be tolerated ad infinitum? A party every night of the week followed by a wag of the finger? What about the students who live in the halls who are not happy about living with people who break the law and potentially endanger them? Not all students are fit and healthy 18 year olds, and even if they are, I know a few who are now suffering from long Covid.