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Original poster

Students thrown off course for throwing a party.

563 replies

Cotbedy · 07/03/2021 11:37

Basically, a load of students held a party of around 16/17 people. They got reported, they all got a £400 fine, apart from the host who got a £10,000 fine.

Then their Uni kicked them all off their courses for bringing the Uni into disrepute.

I think this is probably a fair and reasonable punishment, but DP thinks the Uni have gone too far and they're being unfair.

I'm curious to hear others' thoughts on the matter! Fair or unreasonable?

OP posts:
Kazzyhoward · 07/03/2021 17:17

@Ayla182

Not fair at all. They are not even adults, as silly as they are this shouldn't effect their future. The fine and maybe community service on top would have been enough.
Of course they ARE adults. They'll be over 18 if they're at Uni. They're old enough to vote, marry, get into debt, join the armed forces.
NovemberR · 07/03/2021 17:19

I think it's fair. They can't have believed they weren't breaking the law.

They chose to think the law didn't apply to them and they were special. Now they know they aren't.

DuesToTheDirt · 07/03/2021 17:19

Some students from DD's former uni were thrown out over a party, about 40 people I think. Some were also aggressive when staff tried to break it up. I don't know all the details obviously, but I don't think that throwing them out was too harsh.

Interested in this thread?

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Higher education
Onlinedilema · 07/03/2021 17:20

No I don’t think it’s right at all.
Students have been duped and punished far more than the vast majority of society.
Perhaps all students should have made the decision not to go , and pay extortionate fees for,university. Them where would we be?
Who would foot the bill for all the young adults who were effectively unemployed?
There simply aren’t enough jobs for these young people. Then there is the effect on universities. They and the government conned students to go. Quite frankly they have paid a fortune and for what? Not a decent education that is for sure.
I know of plenty of people who have broken the rules, plenty. They are not punished this much.
And yes, people will keep harping back to Dominic Cummings who still remains unpunished.
I’m actually past caring. I keep myself to myself and have worked throughout this pandemic having to be in contact with members of the public.

Kazzyhoward · 07/03/2021 17:22

In my day job, I work with new grads fresh out of uni and with school leavers. In all cases, the school leavers act with more decorum and common sense. They spend a large chunk of their week around older people, and they grow up quickly. The grads who have spent the last 3 or 4 years of their lives in a pressure cooker full of other young people arrive with much less common sense.

I have to agree. I've been involved in recruiting and training trainee accountants for the last 30+ years over several roles. I've dealt with 16 and 18 year olds straight from school and uni graduates. They're all basically immature when they come into the workplace, whether 16, 18 or 21/22, and all mature at a similar pace in their first few weeks/months in the workplace. It's a shame that the University experience can't be made into a more "mature" experience, but I think a lot of that is the separation in universities between the staff and the students - they really don't "mix" that much - staff do their "thing" and students do "student" things. Whereas in a work setting, the youngsters are working alongside adults, hence why they "grow up" a lot quicker.

sneakysnoopysniper · 07/03/2021 17:28

Breaking the law means a fine, which was imposed. Where does the law say you should lose your education?! So over the top.

Agree 100%. A hefty fine should be sufficient punishment. However if I was a parent I would make sure they paid it themselves and would not give them the money.

Bythemillpond · 07/03/2021 17:31

I would be interested to see how this plays out in court as university isn’t free. I am wondering if there isn’t some comeback from the students that were thrown out about reimbursement of fees.
I think the “bringing the university into disrepute” is subjective and could be argued that the university have charged a fee for a service and are no longer providing that service.
Universities are companies and if you buy a service from a company then you either expect the service or your money back

HeronLanyon · 07/03/2021 17:35

I’m thinking the fine is for breach of Covid regs. The removal from studies is for breach of their university contract. Different things different penalties.

Bythemillpond · 07/03/2021 17:36

There is also the time factor to be considered and associated costs. I think once the students have lawyered up there could be a backing down from the university. Can they afford a court case? I think this decision was made by people who still think university is a free service snd not a money making business

HeronLanyon · 07/03/2021 17:38

I’m thinking they had been warned and will have signed a student contract. Not sure what alternative lesser sentences were available. That’s probably their only realistic appeal - sentence manifestly excessive (which presupposes an alternative could have been imposed).

AlexaShutUp · 07/03/2021 17:38

Universities are companies and if you buy a service from a company then you either expect the service or your money back

Depends on the terms of the contract, surely. Students sign up to a code of conduct, so if they breach the terms of that contract, they only have themselves to blame.

I do actually agree that students who are terminated should have their fees refunded on a pro rata basis, ie for the portion of the course that they are no longer permitted to attend. However, the fact that students pay tuition fees doesn't - and shouldn't - give them license to behave however they please.

Bythemillpond · 07/03/2021 17:38

Interested to see when they signed the university contract and what it says in relation to mentioning a pandemic and the university only providing an on line service

GCAcademic · 07/03/2021 17:38

@Bythemillpond

I would be interested to see how this plays out in court as university isn’t free. I am wondering if there isn’t some comeback from the students that were thrown out about reimbursement of fees. I think the “bringing the university into disrepute” is subjective and could be argued that the university have charged a fee for a service and are no longer providing that service. Universities are companies and if you buy a service from a company then you either expect the service or your money back
By that reasoning you could do whatever the hell you liked in halls as you are paying. It doesn't work like that. You sign a contract in which you agree to abide by the university's regulations. There are other people living in the halls who also have rights, and who the university has to consider. By the same token, if you go on a holiday and behave in a way which is deemed to be detrimental to other holidaymakers, you can be asked to leave, regardless of whether you've paid or not.

And no, universities are not companies. They are charities.

Kazzyhoward · 07/03/2021 17:38

@Bythemillpond

I would be interested to see how this plays out in court as university isn’t free. I am wondering if there isn’t some comeback from the students that were thrown out about reimbursement of fees. I think the “bringing the university into disrepute” is subjective and could be argued that the university have charged a fee for a service and are no longer providing that service. Universities are companies and if you buy a service from a company then you either expect the service or your money back
Yes, but there are terms and conditions attached, like all "businesses". If the customer breaks the terms and conditions, then the law allows for sanctions, even more so if the sanctions are clearly laid out in the terms and conditions that the customer agrees to at the outset.
Sparklingbrook · 07/03/2021 17:40

The rational part of a teen's brain isn't fully developed until 25. So they're more at risk of making stupid decisions

Would that hold up as defence in a court of law? 'My brain is still developing...'

HeronLanyon · 07/03/2021 17:41

It is mitigation not a defence when 10 is the criminal responsibility age. !

changi · 07/03/2021 17:41

You sign a contract in which you agree to abide by the university's regulations.

Exactly...

policies.docstore.port.ac.uk/policy-053.pdf

Sparklingbrook · 07/03/2021 17:43

@HeronLanyon

It is mitigation not a defence when 10 is the criminal responsibility age. !
Ah ok, so it's not a get out clause for teens to do stupid stuff then.
Figgygal · 07/03/2021 17:44

Hard to feel sorry for them I’m afraid

They knew the rules and chose to break them

AlexaShutUp · 07/03/2021 17:46

Interested to see when they signed the university contract and what it says in relation to mentioning a pandemic and the university only providing an on line service

The provision of online only tuition is a red herring, here. If students are not happy with the teaching that they are receiving at the university, they are entitled to make a formal complaint about this and take it to the OIA if they are unhappy with the university's response. That is a separate issue, though, and any unhappiness with what the university has provided doesn't give them a free pass to breach other regulations.

The universities will be covered by their existing codes of conduct, as illegal activities in halls will not be permitted. It is highly likely that students will also have agreed not to bring the university into disrepute. Most universities have communicated very clearly about the possible consequences of breaching covid regulations, so they can't really claim that they didn't know. I can't see how they'd get very far at all with a legal challenge tbh.

nothingcanhurtmewithmyeyesshut · 07/03/2021 17:54

They break the law, there are consequences. Good lesson to learn early.

Bythemillpond · 07/03/2021 17:55

I do actually agree that students who are terminated should have their fees refunded on a pro rata basis, ie for the portion of the course that they are no longer permitted to attend. However, the fact that students pay tuition fees doesn't - and shouldn't - give them license to behave however they please

Once universities started to charge for their services then they eliminated their power to remove people for things they don’t like or might not be in the spirit of the university. They became a business and have to adhere to business rules and regulations.
If someone buys something even if that person is the prime suspect in a murder case then the service has to be provided.
I think what people do outside of their on line lectures isn’t relevant.

A contract that has things that might be construed as subjective in there isn’t a great contract and I think could be ripped apart in a court of law

changi · 07/03/2021 17:58

Once universities started to charge for their services

Universities have always charged for their services. In the past the government picked up the tab. Now, the student has to pay part of the bill.

Souther · 07/03/2021 18:03

Its definitely over the top.
I think the university will have to overturn its decision.

SofiaMichelle · 07/03/2021 18:04

I worry we are not identifying which students fall into which category. Some of them are really still only babies, they just look like grown-ups.

FFS!

They shouldn't be allowed out without mummy if that's really the case.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. The end.