Students thrown off course for throwing a party.

[Cotbedy]

Basically, a load of students held a party of around 16/17 people. They got reported, they all got a £400 fine, apart from the host who got a £10,000 fine.

Then their Uni kicked them all off their courses for bringing the Uni into disrepute.

I think this is probably a fair and reasonable punishment, but DP thinks the Uni have gone too far and they're being unfair.

I'm curious to hear others' thoughts on the matter! Fair or unreasonable?

I don't understand all the whataboutery about other people breaking the rules either

Me neither.

Far too harsh.

sorry, it’s kind of irritating when you get the faux confused questions when I think it’s pretty clear why I posted the article about police breaking the law

There was a thread all about those police back when the article came out. I don't see the connection that's all. Not 'faux' confused at all-actually confused.

@Nuitsdesetoiles

Not bullshit. The adolescent brain doesn't fully form until age 25 or thereabouts. Until then people are likely to be more impulsive and take risks. It's a fundamental part of the tasks of adolescence. So by forcing them to live in a risk averse way they are being denied their natural development.

The uni were out of order.

It is bullshit. How do you account for the fact that the vast majority of over-eighteens are fully-formed, rational, sensible, law-abiding citizens? Why was I and the vast majority of my peers - like generations before us - acting like adults by the time we left school? What's changed that we suddenly have this new science to explain teenagers' immaturity? Could it be something to do with parents not setting boundaries?

@AlexaShutUp

Actions have consequences

Honestly, this seems to be an incredibly difficult concept for some students and their parents to grasp. I don't understand all the whataboutery about other people breaking the rules either - universities are not responsible for police or MPs or political advisors, and they have no power to impose sanctions on these groups. They do, however, have a responsibility to enforce the codes of conduct that students sign up to.

It’s not ‘whataboutery’, it’s highlighting the over the top sanctions compared to law enforcers who have broken the law. It’s to demonstrate that possibly (in some peoples view), it’s heavy handed and that they are getting heavier punishments than the police.

Some of the comments on this thread about students are pretty hateful too.

Whether this is true or a load of bollocks (I think the latter) it has brought out the many student haters out in force.

Student haters - why do you hate them so much? I don't get it.

It's science not my opinion!

If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. Maybe the will learn.

It’s not ‘whataboutery’, it’s highlighting the over the top sanctions compared to law enforcers who have broken the law.

The problem is not that these sanctions are over the top. The problem is that the law enforcers were not sanctioned sufficiently. While I agree that's that's annoying, it is not the responsibility of the universities.

Are we going to argue forevermore that nobody should face consequences for anything because Dominic Cummings got away with breaking the rules? I hope not - two wrongs do not make a right.

As for hate, I have repeatedly said that the vast majority of students are fantastic. I should know, I worked with them for years. However, there are a small minority who are not fabulous, who do not care about the consequences of their actions and expect to be given license to do whatever they please because they are only young. This is a real shame, as it makes life so much harder for the rest of them.

It's completely right - the rule breaking doesn't just affect the students, it has the potential to kill people.
I live in a small University town - from March to September last year we had just five cases in total, none of them fatal.

Then the students return and within a month we had more than 100 cases.

Since then we've also had several deaths.

And yet I saw parents on here talking of ways to get round the lockdown rules and moaning about "unfriendly" locals who were understandably annoyed at the rule breaking.

It's infuriating quite frankly.

I'm reluctant to say much because this thread is clearly going in the Daily Mail if it hasn't already, but I totally agree with the comment that most students are not fully-formed adults.

This lack of development is worse because we put them together where they can make stupid decisions together. An 18-year-old in a group of people that includes older people is less likely to think of something idiotic and/or to follow through. An 18-year-old in the company of lots of other 18-year-olds, especially where pack dominance has not yet been asserted (which one is the leader? who are the cool kids?) is more likely to do something downright dumb. There's also a lot of mob mentality thrown into the mix.

I went to university. A lot of what I saw at the time horrified me and I said nothing because I hadn't drawn my own boundaries yet. There are some things I regret not reporting at the time and that I would kick up a fuss about if they happened now. I felt diminished in a crowd - it was difficult to take a stand as a minority. I think I did my best based on my age at the time, but I'd make different decisions now.

In my day job, I work with new grads fresh out of uni and with school leavers. In all cases, the school leavers act with more decorum and common sense. They spend a large chunk of their week around older people, and they grow up quickly. The grads who have spent the last 3 or 4 years of their lives in a pressure cooker full of other young people arrive with much less common sense.

Actions do have consequences. But in this country, we believe in punishment and rehabilitation and some students are more in need of rehabilitation than others. Boot out the hard-core trouble-markers, certainly, they need that kind of tough consequence to learn something from their actions. However, there will be others who just need a smaller scare - a temporary suspension - and more pastoral guidance.

From my experience of university, I worry we are not identifying which students fall into which category. Some of them are really still only babies, they just look like grown-ups.

Of course it isn't reasonable when politicians and celebs are doing it left, right and centre.
One rule for us but different if you are a multi millionnaire/ ess.

@LindainLockdown

Whether this is true or a load of bollocks (I think the latter) it has brought out the many student haters out in force.

Student haters - why do you hate them so much? I don't get it.

I agree. Just don't get it at all. If you look at the FE section on MN, the hatred comes through from quite a few Uni staff/lecturers. I really don't know how they can take a wage when they clearly have no respect for their students. Same in our University town - if it weren't for the Uni, it would be just another run down Northern town with nothing going for it. Because of the uni, it has a good range of shops, bars, restaurants, and nightclubs, as well as a vibrant property market. Yet the locals continuously whinge about trivialities on social media.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2892678/

My first thought was this was ok, but it made me wonder if committing a crime (any kind) is an automatic kicking out - if not, this seems overly harsh. And agree with the posters pointing out that they got fined, which was their punishment.

@iwantmysay

I suppose it's because they're in halls on Uni premises

Uni premises that they pay at least 5k per year for, so basically their own private space, unlike say a party at work.

Now if the party was in a lecture hall etc then fair enough.

What about all the others that live there?

When I was at uni, there was a group kicked from their course for being too loud in halls (parties amongst other things).

During my second year there was another group kicked from the course for the same thing, They privately rented but would have parties, loud music and on several occasions this was on a flat roof above someone else's property.

Also if this has happened, I very much suspect that its not a first offence.

Loving the people saying
(a) its not true
(b) they were not expelled
(c) it was a one off
when SEVERAL of us have linked to the REPEATED
BBC News stories about the problems at
University of Portsmouth

Not fair at all. They are not even adults, as silly as they are this shouldn't effect their future. The fine and maybe community service on top would have been enough.

They were absolutely wrong to do it, significant fines are in order. But to be thrown off their course for this is disproportionate. As someone said upthread, 16 party - goers can be two households of 8. Students have lost a lot more than many in lockdown. They are borrowing up to 60,000 pounds for a three year course and effectively losing half of their learning experience. That's hugely stressful, causing enormous pressure on mental health, and for some will affect their judgement. I also think £500 for party goers (student or non-student) is too low as a deterrent and £1,000 - 2000 minimum for each person attending and £5,000 -10,000 for the organiser would better reflect the balance of culpability and act as a better deterrent.

Totally unreasonable. Imagine being late teens and early 20s and not allowed to do something totally natural like having a party. Yes they shouldn't have done it but who didn't do stupid things when they were that age? And now their career prospects could be damaged. They should have been fined, but not chucked off their course. Not fair and over the top.

I thought it might be this Uni near me but they had 30 people at their party, half of whom managed to run away when the police arrived, and one who assaulted a police officer. I’ve not heard anything locally about any of them being expelled, although the comment from the Uni in the article does say that’s an option.

The rational part of a teen's brain isn't fully developed until 25. So they're more at risk of making stupid decisions.

I did comment after my original comment that if it's a second offence then they should get expelled but people seem to have jumped on me saying 'they're not fully formed adults'.

Which they're not.

While brain development explains differences at a population level, I think it does a real discredit to young people to handwave individual foolishness based on it brain development which continues throughout our entire lives so I guess we're never fully adults (the current thinking is that while it differs for everyone, but full rational judgement isn't fully developed until well into the 30s - at least, possibly not even then for everyone). Or maybe adulthood isn't based on solely on certain types of brain development, an ever developing science and involves a lot of factors of which age is one.

Also, since we don't know the exacts of the information to fact-check what the OP is talking about even with the educated guesses on similar enough sounding incidents - it's quite possible that some of the people involved were 25+ - mature students do exist and some of them make stupid mistakes too. People make stupid mistakes at all ages.

This reminds me of young Brits I met soon after I immigrated here who discussed how they'd been deported when they'd been traveling abroad for breaking laws and all the issues that was causing them in traveling and how unfair the impact it would have on their future for a 'silly mistake' usually involving drugs and improper documentation as if their age and their desires changed anything. I ran into one years later who seemed very surprised that it hadn't happened to me, that I still have a clean record. It probably involved a lot of factors, but not having a family safety net and having seen the consequences of many my age from 'stupid mistakes', I didn't think any desire I had was worth it and knew my age wouldn't protect me.

Also, I find it hard to feel that maybe having to apply to a different uni or having to repeat the year is losing their education, having known people whose stupid teenage mistakes meant they couldn't finish secondary school. It's harsh if the university doesn't treat serious crimes equally harshly, but I don't see it as some lifelong consequence that they'll struggle to overcome.

I think the fines are disproportionate and to kick them out of university for attending a party is crazy. What are they actually trying to achieve here? This will just create resentment who have given up a massive amount to protect others in the past year.

But it will cause even more resentment among those students who haven't gone to parties, and have stuck to the rules, especially if it leads to an outbreak of Covid in the hall.

I think the main problem here is that very few of us are innocent of not breaking the rules at some point during this lockdown . Wether it is meeting grandparents indoors or walking with more than one friend outdoors . Would we all feel a fine plus loss of job be a fair punishment. It was reported in the press 40% of over 80’s are now breaking the rules should they be hauled through the press and fined (and yes I know they are vaccinated but so is my uni student DD and all her course peers. She is still following the rules)
There isn’t a two tier system on rules you either break them or you dont and wether you mix with one other person or 16 if is against the rules it is against the rules . Each scenario comes with risk of passing covid on to another vulnerable person.
The issue really is that students are doing what we all are but because they are doing so in Uni accomodation they are subject to more scrutiny than we are in our own homes where we can invite friends or relatives under the radar, Mumsnet is littered with threads highlighting people breaking the rules meeting people daily and no one bats an eyelid. Throw in an 18year old into the fray and it is tantamount to genocide

Not fair at all. They are not even adults

It would be unusual if they weren't.