STOP LOOKING!! STOP LOOKING!! How can I help my son?

[NoBlueSkyComing]

My DS1 is almost 8 and has always been a very sensitive child. Very easily hurt physically and emotionally. He can react very aggressively, verbally and sometimes physically too. I have seen two family support workers about him. He likes to be by himself when he is upset and they have said this is a fine coping strategy. But it has reached awful levels. it is not that he takes himself off to a room. He screams and shouts and insists others leave the room. He is now ruining play dates. He doesn't have friends his own age but does a few years younger. But today he fell when out with a friend. Just a normal trip on the pavement. No big deal. But for the rest of the 20 minute work home he kept screaming, 'DON'T LOOK AT ME!!' at his friend or his brother or his friend's mum, if they turned around in his direction. I had to walk metres behind the others so he could hide behind me, except to scream aggressively at them occasionally if they turned in his direction. He screams repeatedly at strangers, adults and children if he falls when out, 'STOP LOOKING! DON'T LOOK AT ME.' He ruined another playdate recently, simply would not calm down, he did take himself off to hide but did not calm down, every time his friend came to find him he would scream at him. After 30 mins his friend started crying as my son would not play with him and told his mum he wanted to go home so they did. This behaviour is ruining his, and consequently my, ability to make friends.

I have no idea what to do. I can't talk to him. He just screams at me to shut up. Even if I try later when he is calmer; only very, very occasionally can I manage to very briefly talk about a recent behaviour of his. I have tried talking about that film Outside In and how being sad makes others care for you, and that is what happens when he falls. I've tried being blunt and saying no-one will want to be your friend if you behave like that, so let me help you to find a way to respond differently. But nothing works. He's getting worse.

I am at the end of my tether. He gets a lot of time and attention and love and praise. But I am starting to find him increasingly hard to like when he is like this. I worry desperately about him, but his refusal to even try to help himself is hard to take. He has just told me that he knows himself better than me and he can't change and never will be able to.

When was his last EP assessment @NoBlueSkyComing ? Sorry to hear he is behind in his learning at school, it sounds like it may correlate together. I think it’s definitely a wise move to ask the school to get in touch with the EP again. Autism assessment would come from a pediatrician usually, I would also suggest contacting them.

I work in SEN at the LA and would be impossible to say ASD/ADHD without thorough assessments and rating scales from people around him (such as you and school) however ASD children do typically behave differently in a school environment than they do at home. They tend to bottle things up and then let it all out at home too. Lockdown and lack of school routine also could be playing a part.

I wonder if the shock or pain (however short) clicks him into fight or flight mode and he struggles to calm down from it? Sounds like he gets into fight mode.

Does he struggle to calm after other things or just being hurt physically?

Maybe some work on calming would help. Or helping him to understand what happens in his brain when he goes into that state and work on some ideas he can practice to help him calm.

What do you do at the moment when he falls over?

@Prufrocks

Of course you’re right to be concerned about his ability to make friends as well as your own. That’s perfectly rational and fine, op.

Thank you Prufrocks.

I've put huge effort into making friends with people with children my sons could play with. I moved to the country I live in now a few years ago and it has not been easy starting over and have felt heavily the responsibility for making friends for my sons as well as myself.

@AlfonsoTheTerrible

Has he been assessed for any conditions such as ASD?

He doesn't strike me as autistic. He can be a very empathetic

OP, I am sorry you are having trouble with your son. That sounds very difficult, indeed.

Can we please stop with the "Oh, X has difficulties. Has s/he been assessed for autism" crap? I have autism and it's really offensive that every time someone mentions behavioural difficulties, someone chimes in with a comment about autism.

And, please, stop with the misunderstanding that those of us on the spectrum lack empathy. We lack the ability to read social clues but as soon as we do we react appropriately.

When you're on the spectrum life is difficult enough as it is without people - no matter how well-meaning - relating any kind of difficulty to autism.

Thank you for listening to my TED talk.

Well said!

When was his last EP assessment @NoBlueSkyComing ?

It was autumn 2019.

@AIMD It could be something like. He had a lot of pain in early infancy and I suspect that has given him a heightened pain response.
I think he struggles with any emotional regulation, tbh. And I think then he feels embarrassed and shuts down from speaking about it as that brings all the feelings and feeling of shame and sadness back.
Its really hard to know how to deal with it.

When he falls over first of all I ignore it to see how he reacts, as if I react that can spark a meltdown. If he doesn't recover himself and is upset, I go over and see if he wants me to help him or if he wants to be left alone.

For other parents with autistic children, are your children like that? My son is very good at naming his emotions and recognising them.

Maybe some work on calming would help. Or helping him to understand what happens in his brain when he goes into that state and work on some ideas he can practice to help him calm
I've tried this - sometimes it can help a little. And he advises me to use these techniques when I am getting rattled

I think it would be entirely reasonable to ask for an updated assessment from the EP.

I used to teach a girl with asd who did exactly this when upset (although that doesn't mean that your son does, just saying for context). She struggled to recognise and regulate her own emotions so we did a lot working on this. It has to be done regularly when the child is calm though, and then can be built on. We used the 5 point scale which is like a temperature scale (you can find these online including ones linked specifically to inside out) and worked together to create her own scale. So at 1 she would be completely calm and happy, we would discuss what that feels like inside for her, how it feels physically, how she might appear to other people, what she tends to be doing when she feels that way, etc. The next point up would be if she felt ok but maybe not quite as happy, and we would go through all the above for this step, then for each step on the scale up to 5 which would be raging angry (the point you're son is reaching when he is doing this). We would then have regular check-ins throughout the day when I'd ask how she was feeling and she would tell me where she was on the scale, if she felt above a 1 or 2 we would discuss what could bring her back down to a 1. The point of this was to help her to recognise her own emotions and spot when she was beginning to become more stressed and to build a bank of strategies she could use to bring herself back to a good place where she was not stressed or upset. It took regular use for an extended period of time but it made a marked difference for her ability to recognise and regulate her emotions. There would still be times when something was too much and would send her straight to 5, but again, over time her reactions became less extreme and she became more likely to use one of her coping strategies to manage this.

It could be worth looking into, you can find a lot of resources for this online.

Thanks @Tallybeebloom that is really helpful. Would I just google ' five point scale?' Did that girl have autism? I'm starting to wonder if that is it now.. I have known a couple of children with autism and a couple of adults and my son doesn't seem like them so I have never considered it before..

Oh, and another thing I did was create 'safe spaces', so places that she would go to that could feel secure or safe for her when she felt this way (rather than everyone else leaving the room which was what she would demand previously). These were almost like little dens and gave her a place she felt secure in order to calm down.

He is Could be incredibly sensitive and raw emotionally.

I agree it could be something triggered from a school and aside from all the other investigations I would definitely look into bullying or teasing.. And how the school deal with it.

Thanks @showgirl63 There was a time when I would have him just in the car after school before picking up his brother and I found that easier for talking with him. Don't really have that opportunity now.

Could it be worth thinking about dyspraxia - struck me as being a possibility re. his falling. Be open to all possibilities until the issues are narrowed down and a diagnosis (if there is one) can be confirmed - it sounds as if you're coping with it well.

@NoBlueSkyComing

Maybe some work on calming would help. Or helping him to understand what happens in his brain when he goes into that state and work on some ideas he can practice to help him calm I've tried this - sometimes it can help a little. And he advises me to use these techniques when I am getting rattled

Sounds very similar to my son. He is very sensitive, bright and intune with others. However if he’s hurt or scared his reactions can be a little extreme.

@Prufrocks

You say he has younger friends but none his own age, why is that?

I’d suggest going back to the absolute basics of teaching your child emotional language. Be sure that he can recognise his feelings and name them.

He fell over and a lot of things happened: some physical pain, some shock, some embarrassment. That’s a lot to process and work through. It’s possible that he’s just lacking the ability to express this in a more functional way.

We were an in-year school transfer. I find it quite a closed community here - I've tried and tried to make friends with the school mums, and play dates and so on but without success and I think he has had the same at school.

I think he is quite good at naming feelings, but you may be right that I need to put more focus on this again.

DS1 is 8 and has ASD/ADHD. He has moments like your son.

He is also very caring and loving. ASD is a social-communication disorder, it has nothing to do with empathy.

OP, feel free to PM if you want details of how to get assessments etc. if you'd like to explore this possibility.

@AlfonsoTheTerrible

Has he been assessed for any conditions such as ASD?

He doesn't strike me as autistic. He can be a very empathetic

OP, I am sorry you are having trouble with your son. That sounds very difficult, indeed.

Can we please stop with the "Oh, X has difficulties. Has s/he been assessed for autism" crap? I have autism and it's really offensive that every time someone mentions behavioural difficulties, someone chimes in with a comment about autism.

And, please, stop with the misunderstanding that those of us on the spectrum lack empathy. We lack the ability to read social clues but as soon as we do we react appropriately.

When you're on the spectrum life is difficult enough as it is without people - no matter how well-meaning - relating any kind of difficulty to autism.

Thank you for listening to my TED talk.

It was my thought too as my son with ASD displays this exact behaviour.

@noblueskycoming

Yes if you put '5 point scale' or '5 point emotions scale' you should find a lot online.
Yes, this girl had a diagnosis of ASD but I wouldn't ever say that this means that your son does. I teach children with social, emotional and behavioural needs and have taught children who have struggled to regulate their emotions for a range of reasons.

Amen @AlfonsoTheTerrible. Yet another voice fed up with autism being rolled out as the first go to diagnosis.

Op, my niece was like that from a young age, she just couldn't handle her emotions properly and has had some help with it with CYPS and school counselling. Speak to school first and see if they can offer any advice, is the same at school or just at home?

Sounds very similar to my son. He is very sensitive, bright and intune with others. However if he’s hurt or scared his reactions can be a little extreme

@AIMD Is your son autistic?

I must add, the EP told me DS1 wasn't autistic - in reception. I had to pay for ASD and ADHD assessments when he got to Y2/3.

My autistic son can be like this. For him this would work (I’m not saying it would work with yours, but worth thinking about)...

I’d give him a choice when he gets upset. “Do you want your blanket or do you want to walk behind?” I’d carry a blanket, for him to cover his head when he’s upset. Once he’s calm (not at all helpful whilst he’s upset) I’d explain the boundary- “you can go to a different room, or you can have your blanket, but you’re not allowed to shout at us to go away” Reiterate the boundary whenever necessary (calm friendly voice).

He needs to not be seen when he’s upset. It’s not his choice, that’s what he needs, he doesn’t want to be like this, it’s not fun for him, it’s what he needs. So he can either have his blanket or walk behind, but he’s not allowed to shout at people to go away. I would respect his need, but provide a boundary.

How about a blanket to hide under? He could keep it in a backpack and take it out when you go out if it's a regular occurrence. He sounds very overwhelmed/dysregulated and so I think it would be good to assume he has limited control over how he's reacting. I'm also wondering if a sugary drink or chocolate bar might help after the first few minutes if it's taking him over 30 minutes to fully calm down.

@AlfonsoTheTerrible

Has he been assessed for any conditions such as ASD?

He doesn't strike me as autistic. He can be a very empathetic

OP, I am sorry you are having trouble with your son. That sounds very difficult, indeed.

Can we please stop with the "Oh, X has difficulties. Has s/he been assessed for autism" crap? I have autism and it's really offensive that every time someone mentions behavioural difficulties, someone chimes in with a comment about autism.

And, please, stop with the misunderstanding that those of us on the spectrum lack empathy. We lack the ability to read social clues but as soon as we do we react appropriately.

When you're on the spectrum life is difficult enough as it is without people - no matter how well-meaning - relating any kind of difficulty to autism.

Thank you for listening to my TED talk.

Respectfully, this is a social communication difficulty, not a behavioural difficulty. That's why people are mentioning autism. The child involved has social interaction and communication difficulties - no friends their own age, only younger, and despite "knowing" the rule unable to apply it, that's a social understanding problem.

That's why people are mentioning autism.

He might not be autistic. But this isn’t typical 8yr old behaviour. I