Poor, poor woman

[Mookie81]

Complete lack of support and nowhere to turn.
A terrible deed but I feel so sorry for her.
And where the fuck was her ex? Living in Spain while she was driven to despair.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9186243/Olga-Freemans-friends-reveal-agony-trapped-flat-son-loved-dearly.html

I agree OP. A lot of blame has been placed on the council for not giving sufficient support. I actually blame the father. He must have known how extremely difficult his son was to care for, and yet he had swanned off abroad. He got a break. She never did. She had given up her successful career to look after their son, yet when they divorced, she had to sell the house and move into a small flat. If he'd been in regular contact with them both, surely he could have noticed changes in her and her ability to cope?

@movingonup20

I truly understand how it is to have an autistic child and little support because that was me, but I still didn't kill her. I have permanent scars from where she attacked me as does her younger sister. If a parent is at the complete breaking point you drive them to the police station, hospital or other place of safety and leave them, there's never an excuse to kill. So not poor woman, it's manslaughter

She was suffering from psychosis. She had made comments about being jesus/ the messiah. She had made comments about needing to sacrifice her child to bring balance to the world. That isn't a person capable of thinking "I should take my child to a&e as I am not coping".

There are many parents suffering this neglect by the authorities - disminished responsibility is right - denial of sleep is seen as a form off torture - but its fine for councils to withdraw the critical and minimal levels of support they provide for parents such as this lady. Yes I think his father is culpable as well - he ranaway to an easy life doing only the absolute minimum. I think where disabled children are involved in a divorce situation more account needs to be taken of the stresses this leaves the RP with. I don't condone murder , but when you leave someone with 24/7 care and no support for a none sleeping child this is what happens and she is not at fault given the diminished responsibility. Special schools have been far to quick to shut completely when they are FULL of vulnerable children, this is a shocking case of abandonment

@movingonup20

I truly understand how it is to have an autistic child and little support because that was me, but I still didn't kill her. I have permanent scars from where she attacked me as does her younger sister. If a parent is at the complete breaking point you drive them to the police station, hospital or other place of safety and leave them, there's never an excuse to kill. So not poor woman, it's manslaughter

Out of interest, what would happen if someone did that? Presumably the police/A&E wouldn't allow them to just leave them there. Would you be arrested or detained in some way?

I've seen before on Mumsnet that there's a tendency for people coping with MH issues (I fall into this trap myself) not to understand that there's a very wide range of MH problems.

I've never suffered from psychosis, but I have witnessed psychotic behaviour in the past. I witnessed my DB having such an episode, when we were on holiday in Africa. It was caused by the anti-malarial drug Lariam, which he should never have been prescribed as it was known to have a negative effect on people with MH issues.

He basically lost touch with reality and said the most bizarre things. Like telling my DM not to open a parcel when we got home, as it was dangerous. There was no telling him otherwise, as it was his reality.

So to this broken mum, the belief that she was the Messiah and she must sacrifice her son would have actually been her reality at that point. Hence the verdict of 'diminished responsibility'; she genuinely wasn't in her right mind. She was assessed a by psychiatrist and that was their assessment, which the court accepted.

SocSer will say things like that. In reality, CPS are not going to prosecute. It's a tactic SocSer use to get you to continue with the status quo. I had my first ever work disciplinary for telling a parent of a 16 y/o who was smashing the house up and attacking the rest of the family on a regular basis that no, what duty had just told them about them having to keep him at the family home or they would be prosecuted for neglect was not realistic.

Such a sad awful story xx

@movingonup20 that would be a rational decision made by someone capable of rational thought. Funnily enough psychosis makes it a bit difficult to make rational decisions though. People who experiencing that aren't thinking logically, their perception is completley skewed and their hallucinations are their reality.

I really need to emphasise psychosis is a distorted impaired reality & perception that is beyond the voluntary control of the individual. There is an involuntary compulsion to act in a manner the person believes to be rational. And that’s the key point, the individual genuinely believes the psychotic belief and in some cases acts upon it with catastrophic results

Out of interest, what would happen if someone did that? Presumably the police/A&E wouldn't allow them to just leave them there. Would you be arrested or detained in some way?

I think there is actually a number you call to say your children are in critical danger in your care, they are then taken into emergency care.

I would imagine you then work with social services to get yourself back into a position where you can care for them saftley. It that can't be done the children go into care.

It's not a crime to say you can't cope with your kids, you just need to follow the correct channels.

@movingonup20

I truly understand how it is to have an autistic child and little support because that was me, but I still didn't kill her. I have permanent scars from where she attacked me as does her younger sister. If a parent is at the complete breaking point you drive them to the police station, hospital or other place of safety and leave them, there's never an excuse to kill. So not poor woman, it's manslaughter

You might do that, if you weren't also suffering from severe depression and psychosis such as to result in delusions and hallucinations. How can you judge how you would behave in that situation?

Obviously it is manslaughter, given the plea that has been accepted, but I would hope that any sentence would recognise the dreadful circumstances Olga Freeman was in and will lean toward treatment and help rather than punishment.

@wellthatsunusual, I think that if someone in this situation left her child with the police or A&E, they would be treated as abandoning the child who would be taken into care. I doubt they would be charged with anything unless there were signs of neglect or abuse. Social services would then take over and, ideally, work with the parent so that the child could go back home with the right support in place.

I once had dealings with someone who did this: he was at the end of his tether with his severely disabled teenage son, and the council kept shrugging their shoulders and say there was nothing they could do either about education or help with care. Eventually, in utter despair, the father simply left the boy at Social Services' office. Suddenly they managed to overcome their problems with organising care, placing the child with foster parents and organising education. Once education was in place and with the foster parents saying they would be prepared to offer respite care, it became possible for the boy to move back home. But it was utterly disgraceful that the father was driven to such desperate lengths.

@staydazzling

I know you mean well op put posts like this only normalise women murdering their disabled child. even at the end of her rope she didn't even choose a quick and painless method.

What part of psychotic break do people not understand? You're talking about her choice, as if she made a rational decision to do it the way she did! I've seen a family member have psychotic episodes and they are completely removed from reality. I'm not normalising her behaviour I'm trying to shine a light on the issues she faced and women (it's mostly women) face on a daily basis. It worries me the lack of any critical thinking and empathy from some people on this thread, how it is completely beyond them to see how bad it must have been for her. There is a long way to go with how the public view mental health.

It worries me the lack of any critical thinking and empathy from some people on this thread

Threads like these always make me think that the countries who have moved away from jury trials probably have the right idea.

So sad for all involved.

A lot of the people on this thread have children with additional needs. It seems rather arrogant and lacking in empathy to dismiss their opinions because you feel you have a deeper understanding of the difficulties they face.

The problem is that some people seem to have difficulty in understanding that their experience isn't universal, and can't be. It's pointless to say words to the effect of "I have a child with a disability and I've never killed him" because no two people's circumstances are the same. Unless your experience is identical to Olga Freeman's, up to and including susceptibility to severe depression and psychosis, you are no better qualified than anyone else to say she should have reacted differently.

Poor, poor Dylan.

That article is written in an appalling way. This is a child who has died and it just reads as negative after negative. Then, why are almost all the pictures of the mother, not the child?

@5zeds

A lot of the people on this thread have children with additional needs. It seems rather arrogant and lacking in empathy to dismiss their opinions because you feel you have a deeper understanding of the difficulties they face.

I'm not saying I understand the difficulties parents of children with needs face. I'm talking about people with mental health issues who are pushed to the brink and over the edge and in my opinion a lot of the people in charge have the same lack of empathy displayed on this thread.

it is absolutely outrageous that the peoples support that was already lacking has been ripped away because of the pandemic. It is dangerous and its cruel.
That doesnt mean that we get to write entire articles about how bad it is for the mother and barely mention the kid who was killed as if hes an afterthought.

I’ve been accused of lack of empathy even though my first sentence was that I had sympathy for Olga but more sympathy for her son Dylan as he was an innocent child.

I suffer from a psychotic disorder and I’ve managed not to kill my 4 DCs, one is SEN and one os SEN + Autistic. I stated that if I ever did kill a child of mine, I fully expect to be locked away for a very long time in a hospital or prison. That’s what would be needed if I’m dangerous to others.

But I’ve been accused of no empathy. No understanding of mental illness, and so on. All because I don’t think Olga should be let off, she is to blame and not her ex husband in Spain as some have said.

Oh and by the way Olga had 12hrs a week of support and respite.

“Ms Surpickaja had only been able to offer that assistance for around 12 hours per week”

So, it may not have been enough support, but it is not true to say she had no support at all.

@Arobase

The problem is that some people seem to have difficulty in understanding that their experience isn't universal, and can't be. It's pointless to say words to the effect of "I have a child with a disability and I've never killed him" because no two people's circumstances are the same. Unless your experience is identical to Olga Freeman's, up to and including susceptibility to severe depression and psychosis, you are no better qualified than anyone else to say she should have reacted differently.

Then what is the point of the entire justice system? Why have laws, judges and juries? That absolutely ridiculous to say a person must have an absolutely identical experience to come to any judgement of actions.

Should we apply that to rapists too? If you’ve never raped anyone in exactly the same circumstances, meh can’t judge.

Judges take advice from experts and listen to it. They don't typically decide someone's fate based on their own short sighted prejudices (and any who do are bad at their job).

Incidentally, children have Special Educational Needs or SEN, they are not SEN. Autism is considered an SEN, it's not in addition to.