Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Poor, poor woman

822 replies

Mookie81 · 26/01/2021 07:43

Complete lack of support and nowhere to turn.
A terrible deed but I feel so sorry for her.
And where the fuck was her ex? Living in Spain while she was driven to despair.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9186243/Olga-Freemans-friends-reveal-agony-trapped-flat-son-loved-dearly.html

OP posts:
Labobo · 27/01/2021 09:28

but she refused her friend’s offers of help according to a few articles. I can understand this. What she needed was sleep. To get sleep, she needs someone else to be in charge of her son. But his needs were so complex, his behaviour so erratic, she couldn't just hand him over to them, so effectively the help she needed was not what they could give. I remember friends offering to have my DC for a weekend as DH and I had never had a day off together or a date night in eight years and politely brushing them off because they just didn't get it.

formerbabe · 27/01/2021 09:35

That poor child and that poor mother. My heart goes out to her. No judgment from me...at least not towards her.

IheartJKR · 27/01/2021 09:40

I’m not saying the mother is blameless. She’s not.

I’m very angry about the fathers lack of accountability towards his own child. There are far to many men like this, who walk away from their child. There is a whole bunch of reasons they give, work - new families etc.
None of these reasons are open as excuses for the person who is left singlehandedly to raise a child or children.

Oileo · 27/01/2021 09:41

This has played on my mind since it first came to the news. It does not diminish her son’s worth to say ‘poor woman’. They were both vulnerable and both failed. The situation should not have happened in a first world country. I can empathise with her as I can imagine cracking up in her shoes. I don’t know how I’d have coped. My child has milder disability but I’ve touched the madness that a lack of sleep and stress can bring, only I have the protective husband and family around me to protect me ever snapping or it being more than just a ‘I really need a sleep’. I can imagine letting that semi hallucination state progressing for years unchecked.

BounceyBumblebee · 27/01/2021 09:45

I have so much sympathy for this woman. No one can judge her unless they have lived her life. All disabled children are different. Everyones ability to manage differs.

I have a friend who just put her profoundly disabled child into care. She has been crying out for help from social services for the last two years and has received nothing. In the end social services accused her of not loving her child because she wanted respite and a break. They told her if she couldn't cope with him on her own she should put him up for adoption while he's young enough to get adopted. So she agreed feeling she had no other choice - even though she'd wanted to keep him at home, just with some support.

The system is so screwed.

GettingUntrapped · 27/01/2021 10:04

Sometimes when I read accounts of what parents of SEN children go through on here, it's tragic the lack of support they get and what they put up with. I'm surprised more don't crack with such a grind and poor quality of life and no end in sight. It's cruel.

unmarkedbythat · 27/01/2021 10:09

If I am understanding @GreenlandTheMovie right, the suggestion isn't a law that forbids one parent from leaving another, but some form of legislation that recognises that the responsibilities we have as parents continue whether you are in a relationship with the other parent or not. NRPs can of course pursue their careers and other relationships but not at the expense of their existing child(ren) and not by placing all responsibility for the child(ren) on the RP. So yes, Dylan's father had the right to live apart from Dylan's mother, to continue his paid work, to travel for work, etc- but he should also have had and there should have been some process to hold him to, a responsibility to Dylan equal to that of Olga. He knew Dylan's needs and presentation, he would know that social care support was withdrawn or vastly diminished during lockdown, it would not take more than 30 seconds of thinking to realise that the situation his son and ex partner would be in as a result would be appalling, exhausting, terrifying and dangerous. It is neglectful of him, on a moral level if not in law, not to take steps to ensure that his highly vulnerable son and his son's sole carer were safe and well during an unprecedented situation.

I don't know if legislation is the answer but something has to shift. It is not acceptable for one parent to dump everything on another like this and then refuse to accept responsibility for the outcome of that.

MessAllOver · 27/01/2021 10:15

What I don't understand is this - if she begged him for help, why didn't he offer it? He must have known the challenges of his son's disabilities. I think the father's main culpability lies there - she reached out and he turned away.

If she'd had some sense of there being respite and hope on the horizon, maybe things would have turned out differently.

Thisisworsethananticpated · 27/01/2021 10:18

Curious in the case of your friend BounceyBumblebee

Firstly how fucking awful Sad
Surely respite would be better , more effective and cheaper than going into care

Secondly , I’m struggling to imagine a vast pool of dedicated foster carers willing to step in . I just struggle with that
It’s all harrowing

DedlyMedally · 27/01/2021 10:23

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

MessAllOver · 27/01/2021 10:26

Some parents do not love their kids unconditionally, above all else.

There is no evidence that she did not love her son unconditionally. He was her whole life. She couldn't cope and became mentally ill. Sometimes love isn't enough.

unmarkedbythat · 27/01/2021 10:26

What would it take for you to murder your children?

Probably what it took for Olga to kill Dylan- intolerable pressure, no support and most importantly, developing a serious psychiatric illness and experiencing psychosis. Hmm

DobbinsBobbins · 27/01/2021 10:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GreenlandTheMovie · 27/01/2021 10:31

@unmarkedbythat

If I am understanding *@GreenlandTheMovie* right, the suggestion isn't a law that forbids one parent from leaving another, but some form of legislation that recognises that the responsibilities we have as parents continue whether you are in a relationship with the other parent or not. NRPs can of course pursue their careers and other relationships but not at the expense of their existing child(ren) and not by placing all responsibility for the child(ren) on the RP. So yes, Dylan's father had the right to live apart from Dylan's mother, to continue his paid work, to travel for work, etc- but he should also have had and there should have been some process to hold him to, a responsibility to Dylan equal to that of Olga. He knew Dylan's needs and presentation, he would know that social care support was withdrawn or vastly diminished during lockdown, it would not take more than 30 seconds of thinking to realise that the situation his son and ex partner would be in as a result would be appalling, exhausting, terrifying and dangerous. It is neglectful of him, on a moral level if not in law, not to take steps to ensure that his highly vulnerable son and his son's sole carer were safe and well during an unprecedented situation.

I don't know if legislation is the answer but something has to shift. It is not acceptable for one parent to dump everything on another like this and then refuse to accept responsibility for the outcome of that.

Thars a pretty good summing up.

I think it would be possible to frame legislation, possibly using existing legislation, so that in extreme cases resulting in the death or serious injury of a child, culpability would be applied to both parties.

Its incredibly remiss of the father. He is a foreign national who moved to the UK where he had a child with a Russian national, and then left his family in the UK to move to another country. Let's hope he isn't going to make a habit of this.

In this case, it's not as if the father didnt know that his child wasn't severely disabled and that his care wouldn't be heavily impacted by the pandemic. He did nothing to check, nothing additional. His life was unchanged.

Nothing wrong with moving abroad, but everything wrong with not ensuring that a severely disabled child isnt taken care of.

Laws follow morals closely, so I do find it sexist and old fashioned that the laws on child neglect don't recognise neglect in the absent parent too. Obviously the evidential bar would have to be set quite high to avoid unfairness.

BiBabbles · 27/01/2021 10:36

I don't think it absolves the mother to feel that the father and others who knew and had responsibility for the child should face some sort of judgement too. Multiple people failed Dylan, one did so violently and that has been recognised by the courts even with diminished responsibility for her actions. I don't absolve my mother when I talk about how pissed off I still get at times that so many people fucking knew the state she was in and did nothing.

I don't think the father being there would automatically mean she wouldn't have done this - my mother tried while we lived with her parents. I do think it would reduce the risk of her ill mental health getting this bad and reduce the likelihood of "success" in killing him. I think alongside the investigation into the local authority and other systemic failures that at least socially there should be questions about the responsibilities of NRP for disabled children, especially in a case like this where at least from the reporting it seems the father had ample resources to provide more even if he couldn't/wouldn't be there.

I'm not sure how much the law is the right place, though maybe in divorce proceedings with disabled children involves there could be a change in guidelines -- I'm not sure how that works. I do think there needs to be a lot of systemic change around this that others discussed, and there needs to be more social disincentives against those who can be seen as being responsible for a child who do not reasonable act to protect a child when the risks were as they were in this case. It was known, this wasn't some random attack, people knew and not enough was done. She'd discussed this horrible act at least a week before it happened according to some reports - I think those people who knew and did nothing deserve some ire too. With the reports as they currently are, the father fits there.

With Dylan and those who knew and tried, the heartbreak and pain at it not being enough and not getting more support is where my sympathies mostly lie. I know my struggle to sympathize with the mother is my own thing, but she does fit here. That doesn't absolve her, but I think the courts have done as much justice for Dylan with her as can be found. He might get more if we can look at wider social and systemic failures.

MsTSwift · 27/01/2021 10:37

Any reasonable person would feel deeply sorry for the child and the mother. Even the prosecution did at the trial for gods sake.

I utterly agree with the above post about NRP not taking their share. A dear friend is in a similar less extreme situation. Life with their autistic dd was tough so the dh has bailed and us now living a nice life with a pal going on holidays etc. My friend is left alone to deal with their child and she can’t get a job although professionally qualified due to the dds needs. He is living the jolly life as a singleton she is a single mother with a child with special needs. Enraging.

Thisisworsethananticpated · 27/01/2021 10:42

I don’t think anything will change after this sadly
Nothing will change
Which makes it even more depressing

formerbabe · 27/01/2021 10:45

@MsTSwift

Any reasonable person would feel deeply sorry for the child and the mother. Even the prosecution did at the trial for gods sake.

I utterly agree with the above post about NRP not taking their share. A dear friend is in a similar less extreme situation. Life with their autistic dd was tough so the dh has bailed and us now living a nice life with a pal going on holidays etc. My friend is left alone to deal with their child and she can’t get a job although professionally qualified due to the dds needs. He is living the jolly life as a singleton she is a single mother with a child with special needs. Enraging.

Oh come on...I bet the poor dad is banging down the door absolutely desperate to take on an arduous caring role that would significantly impact his career and social life...isn't he?
DedlyMedally · 27/01/2021 10:46

@MessAllOver

Some parents do not love their kids unconditionally, above all else.

There is no evidence that she did not love her son unconditionally. He was her whole life. She couldn't cope and became mentally ill. Sometimes love isn't enough.

I'm not saying she did. I don't know any better than anyone else. But I do have experience of people looking at parental behaviour and blaming it on the difficulty of the child because they couldn't imagine a parent being so relatively indifferent to their child's well-being. Noone here knows anything about the nature of the relationship that this child was conceived in, the relationship between the parents or the circumstances of their relationship unraveling, but the assumptions have clearly been made.
nolongersurprised · 27/01/2021 10:59

The severe lack of sleep could well have triggered a psychotic episode.

From the article:

After 24 hours of sleep deprivation, healthy individuals show symptoms of psychosis similar to those observed in schizophrenia, new research shows

And

Prior research shows that prolonged sleep deprivation can actually cause a syndrome indistinguishable from paranoid schizophrenia

www.medscape.com

Months of severe sleep deprivation made her mentally unwell. Brains need sleep to function.

nolongersurprised · 27/01/2021 10:59

www.medscape.com/viewarticle/828576

Proper link

BuntysTwinkle · 27/01/2021 11:06

It's absolutely horrifying that so many men will be vile enough to attack the mental health of their ex partners when they leave a family home and skip off into the sunset - knowing that person will then be doing the majority if not all of the care for their child. It's scarily common and it should go against every impulse of a loving parent. It's a gigantic convenient blind spot in our country.

Thisisworsethananticpated · 27/01/2021 11:22

That’s what my ex did
My son has some issues , shall we say
Ex blamed me for his depression
Said I caused it , all my fault etc

And now I have a child with some fairly disruptive behaviour and MH issues
And given his PTSD I have to stay calm 100% of the time
Even one shouting from me causes weeks of disruption
Anyway sorry , not relevant
But might explain why this case has upset me so much
Not because I want to murder my child, but deeply empathetic and sad about the whole thing

wellthatsunusual · 27/01/2021 11:25

What would it take for you to murder your children?

I'd imagine that a severe mental illness might drive me to kill my children. I sincerely hope that I never suffer from such a severe illness and never have to find out. But then, if that happened it wouldn't be murder because I wouldn't be of sound mind.

This is entirely different to a parent murdering a child in a fit of rage because they've been drinking all day and want to play Call of Duty in peace.

movingonup20 · 27/01/2021 11:27

I truly understand how it is to have an autistic child and little support because that was me, but I still didn't kill her. I have permanent scars from where she attacked me as does her younger sister. If a parent is at the complete breaking point you drive them to the police station, hospital or other place of safety and leave them, there's never an excuse to kill. So not poor woman, it's manslaughter

Swipe left for the next trending thread