Poor, poor woman

[Mookie81]

Complete lack of support and nowhere to turn.
A terrible deed but I feel so sorry for her.
And where the fuck was her ex? Living in Spain while she was driven to despair.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9186243/Olga-Freemans-friends-reveal-agony-trapped-flat-son-loved-dearly.html

I wonder what difference it would have made if when they divorced she had been able to keep the house and so had a garden for Dylan, if his father had stayed living nearby and shared in Dylan’s care and paid more than standard maintenance ( although he may have, I don’t know). But in my view he did not do enough for his child Words are easy but actions show how much you really care for your child and Dylan’s dad appears to have walked away and left it all up to his ex wife. Shameful

@Clymene

Judges take advice from experts and listen to it. They don't typically decide someone's fate based on their own short sighted prejudices (and any who do are bad at their job).

Incidentally, children have Special Educational Needs or SEN, they are not SEN. Autism is considered an SEN, it's not in addition to.

Thank you for correcting my English. Often when in hurry I skip words.

Judges take advice from experts and listen to it.

Yes which is why I agree with Judge that Olga is guilty of manslaughter due to diminished responsibility instead of murder. But let’s not act like manslaughter isn’t a terrible violent crime that cost a young boy his life.

@GarlicMonkey

His father should be charged with neglect & failure to protect. Instead he'll get sympathy in this messed up country. Non resident parents need holding to account & forced, if necessary, to shoulder their share of responsibility.

I completely agree. How very typical that the "devoted dad" lives his life unencumbered while mum shoulders an inhuman burden. How terrible.

@RickiTarr

No father to be seen. Almost worse than just disappearing, basically fucking off and pleasing himself at the same time as making all the right, utterly hypocritical noises about how much he loved his son. He utterly dropped the child - wanted some nice times, but none of the difficult stuff. Didn't even stay in the same country - made damn sure his lifestyle and his lovely photography career wasn't damaged or even compromised. She knew that if anything happened to her, Dylan would be on his own. I've no words for what a fucking disgrace this so-called 'father' was and I think he should be charged with neglect, quite frankly. He was as much a parent as her and he did FUCK ALL even when he knew she wasn't coping.

Bloody well said. 👏🏼👏🏼

We see you Dean Freeman.

Too bloody right.

If you have no experience of this level of disability/isolation/exhaustion then surely rather than telling those that do that they lack empathy when they try to highlight the victim not the killers experience is a bit like explaining racism to the BAME community if you are white or what it’s like to be a woman if you are male to a female?

A child died. He was not a dog howling nor a list of challenges. He isn’t here anymore because a woman killed him. Now she may have been psychotic, and she may have lost the power to make anyone of the myriad of options she could have taken that didn’t involve killing a vulnerable child, but the way this is positioned, and written is awful.

@PlanDeRaccordement

Judges take advice from experts and listen to it.

Yes which is why I agree with Judge that Olga is guilty of manslaughter due to diminished responsibility instead of murder. But let’s not act like manslaughter isn’t a terrible violent crime that cost a young boy his life.

I don't think anyone is arguing that. But saying that you have mental health issues but have managed not to kill your children is unbearably glib.

Is Olga guilty of killing her son? Absolutely. But Dylan's father and the support services which were snatched away from Dylan are also to blame.

She didn't kill Dylan because she was at the end of her tether, or was fed up with him or because she decided it would be a mercy. She was psychotic.

So the only question here should be: was her psychosis preventable? And the answer to that seems to be probably yes. Which brings us back to who else was responsible

There is a growing proportion of people who say we shouldn't say has autism but the person is autistic. This does go against the typical person first (e.g. had down's syndrome). It's generally coming from autistic people themselves.
Saying someone 'is autistic' is not the same as saying someone 'is ASD' or 'is SEN' though, those just don't make sense, how can someone BE special educational needs?

Has autism vs is autistic is a different discussion to has special educational needs vs is special educational needs.

I've just asked my autistic child and he prefers describing himself as autistic.

If she coped when he was in school but not as soon as school stopped why wasn’t that the cause rather than the fathers level of care?

5zeds

Fair comment

Well, clearly the school closures and respite care being withdrawn were the immediate causes, but why was that entirely her issue to deal with? Why wasn't the father there to share the load when it became clear she wasn't coping?

@DobbinsBobbins

The underlying sentiment is the person does not view their autism as something they have it's something they are. Though it reads as jarring or grammatically incorrect, the preference would be for is, for that particular group. And also a lot of discussion re AS Disorder and AS Condition with that being described as ableist. There is no consensus..

Eh? I know all that. Did you see that I have an autistic child? It's totally grammatically correct. Unlike saying someone is special needs! 

Maybe if Dylan's dad hadn't been such a deadbeat @5zeds Dylan could have coped without school. I suspect not - the lack of routine is crippling for autistic kids. But he could have given Olga a break. She could have got some sleep.

Well, clearly the school closures and respite care being withdrawn were the immediate causes, but why was that entirely her issue to deal with? Why wasn't the father there to share the load when it became clear she wasn't coping? well obviously we’re guessing but surely if the child was at home with his mum and we didn’t guess she was psychotic then relocating and finding accommodation etc mid pandemic mightn’t seem the best solution?

the lack of routine is crippling for autistic kids. for SOME autistic kids. Some of them are thriving without the stress/demands of school

@5zeds

the lack of routine is crippling for autistic kids. for SOME autistic kids. Some of them are thriving without the stress/demands of school

True. Clearly it was very difficult for Dylan.

Why are you so keen to exonerate his dad incidentally? I'm curious.

If she coped when he was in school but not as soon as school stopped why wasn’t that the cause rather than the fathers level of care?

Because she was sleeping while he was at school. If the father was around they could have shared the sleepless nights and her cumulative sleep deprivation should have ace been mitigated somewhat.

I’m not really. I’m sickened by the way Dylan was described and the subsequent discussion. I just find the assumption that working abroad and divorce etc must mean he’s a bum, illogical.

After 24 hours of sleep deprivation, healthy individuals show symptoms of psychosis similar to those observed in schizophrenia, new research shows

And

Prior research shows that prolonged sleep deprivation can actually cause a syndrome indistinguishable from paranoid schizophrenia

Reposting from the study up thread. With schools closed, no father being actually useful, no respite she had no sleep.

I find the view that the father shouldn't have come back from Spain and helped during this very tough time astonishing. His son needed him. His son's mother needed him.

What are fathers for, if they are still "good fathers" even if they fail to step up for their children in these desperate situations?

Do fathers actually have any purpose at all or are they purely decorative and anything else is a bonus?

Some families live in more than one household.

@5zeds. Yes, but even if they live in different households, surely a good father is there for his children if they need him?