Why are teachers still referred to as Mr/Mrs/Miss X?

[ChimaeraEgg]

Idle musing of the day but why do children still have to address teachers using their surnames? I assume that originally this was a respect thing and due to the fact that it was normal to address people at work or other adults as Mr/Mrs X? But I'm 32 and never in my adult life have I addressed another adult using their surname. School is the only place I have done it.

Unfortunately those who are not raised properly struggle with proprietary

I seem to be doing OK!

Luckily my mum taught me to be kind, considerate, polite and open minded so I think I'll let her off the fact she didn't teach me to call everyone older than me Mr or Mrs Smith.

@Nicknamegoeshere just not necessary in the modern era. I call the ceo of my company John (not his real name)

In no way lessens respect. I would prefer GP to be addressed by first name too

I’d rather they focus on please and thank you to demonstrate being polite than an outdated use of Mrs / Mr that demonstrates nothing.

Yep. Mum was always very strict on please and thank you, and I am the same with DS.

In the old days we never knew our teacher’s name. Dd1’s form name is year group plus teacher’s initials plus all staff full names are on the website.

Me too @ChimaeraEgg

@Onceuponatimethen I wonder what doctors think about that?

@ChimaeraEgg What do your children call their teachers?

I haven't really noticed a different in respect or manners between my 16-year-old who has never attended somewhere that requires surnames or uses sir/miss compared to my 13-year-old who attends a school that uses both.

If anything, the way she can intonate miss/sir in a way that I know exactly what she thinks of said teacher, and how she will go on about how sir/miss was wrong like it's such an insult to her person (had to have more than a few talks about yes teachers can be wrong just like everyone else, being wrong doesn't mean someone is bad and it can just be a difference in perspective and opinion rather than wrong...but teenager) makes me feel it's easier to dehumanize and erase a person with titles and formalities.

But then I grew up in part of the States where there is a lot of talk about being 'raised up properly' and you can definitely use 'yes, ma'am' and all sorts of proper etiquette in an insulting manner. We could get malicious compliance down to an art form rather than respectful.

If I started calling our ceo (who sits about 5 meters away from me) Mr I would get some very peculiar looks and probably taken to one side by HR. This doesn’t mean I don’t have total respect for him and I show that in a multitude of ways. I have absolutely been brought up “correctly” which includes being able to adapt and develop as society changes.

@m0therofdragons

My dc are respectful yet call adults they come across by the name they are introduced to them as. There’s never been an occasion outside of school when anyone requested they’re called Mrs xxx. I’d rather they focus on please and thank you to demonstrate being polite than an outdated use of Mrs / Mr that demonstrates nothing.

I find it even more strange that people think it's either/or. That you can either focus on Mr/Mrs etc OR please and thank you. Stuffed if I know why please/thank you isn't automatic and it is so much effort that someone thinks it is an addition to Mr/Mrs, and both together is too much effort.

@RosesAndHellebores

Interestingly *@nevernotstruggling* the only time a social worker has ever telephoned me he introduced himself as Mr xxxxx and attempted to use my first name. It was incredibly rude and reductive and felt designed to put a mother whose child (of 17) had MH problems in their place. Wholly unacceptable. In that situation it's Mrs Hellebores and that is not negotiable.

I agree that's rude and disempowering.

Things change, but gradually. I was also of the generation that called ANY adult Mrs/MR Surname, unless they became such good family friends that they assumed auntie/uncle status (even when unrelated).

My own kids...well it was a mixture. If they were introduced to someone using the adult's forename, then that's who they were to them. If they met a schoolfriend's parent they'd call them Mrs. Surname unless invited otherwise.
I don't think I taught them that, it was just something they picked up along the way (like taking their shoes off at the doorstep, which we didnt but most of their friends did - and of course there's a different mega thread in that!)

Schools are very slowly making that change too. I taught in a special school, and we went over to first names only, because many of our children were either non-verbal or struggled with speech. It was much easier for them to communicate when they only had to say something approximating Sara, rather than wrapping their tongues around Mrs Multisyllablesurname. And as our relationships with parents tended to be more frequent, more personal and more empathetic than in mainstream, the use of first names felt right too.

@m0therofdragons

If I started calling our ceo (who sits about 5 meters away from me) Mr I would get some very peculiar looks and probably taken to one side by HR. This doesn’t mean I don’t have total respect for him and I show that in a multitude of ways. I have absolutely been brought up “correctly” which includes being able to adapt and develop as society changes.

I think children are completely different to adults addressing other adults.

(does this really need explaining?)

It’s not about effort @Cokie3 it’s that in my rl experience no one has ever introduced themselves to my dc as mr and Mrs. Our neighbours, for example, are Bert and Dawn. They are 94 and 98. I don’t know their surname but prior to covid they would sit on their drive to watch my dc and others play in the cul de sac and would have lovely, respectful chats. If someone introduced themselves as Mrs xyz then my dc would of course respect that. Everyone my age hates being Mrs someone as instantly people can judge if you’re married or not and if you have the same name as your dc etc. Perhaps that’s what caused the shift in what is deemed respectful.

The Irish primary and secondary schools my kids are in they teachers are called muinteoir (teacher in Irish) by the kids. Parents and teachers call each other by their first names. As a 49 year old woman I would find it very awkward addressing someone much younger as Mr or Miss.

Mr GP calls me Miss Pickford, and I call him Dr Surname. I had an elderly neighour who I lived next door to for 15 years and never once did I call her by her first name. She was quite old school and rather severe, though the kindest, most generous lady. She never once said 'do you know what Nancy, why not call me Ethel? (Not her real name). Yet I would go in to her house every morning to have a cup of tea, or crochet lessons.

@Cokie3 okay, so B in the 1950s senior staff were often referred to as mr and Mrs by other adults but you are happy that society has moved on from that but feel children’s rules should still apply. Do you not see why others would feel society had moved on further than you suggest?
I don’t actually have any issue with my dc calling an adult mr/Mrs if that’s how they’ve introduced themselves (ie. in school) but I find it odd that parents call them mr and Mrs too. I think that actually creates a barrier of seniority for some parents who the school desperately wants to engage with.

I wish in maternity wards they'd use my name instead of "mum" every 5 seconds!

Sorry. I know that's random!

To be fair Elmo all the maternity wards I've been on, the staff have all been rushed off their feet, pulled six ways at once. Probably far easier to just say Mum.

I much prefer to be Mrs Apples at school. I'm only a mere reception class TA, and definitely not in the game of one upmanship. My kids friends call me by my first name, but using my last name keeps school a formal environment for both the children and me. It's also another difference between preschool and primary school.

When I first entered the workplace I worked in an accountants, and we definitely called our clients Mr X/Mrs X, same when I worked in an auctioneers after that. That's all 2002 onwards so not the complete dark ages. The Dr calls me Mrs Apples and I refer to them as Dr X.
But, my accountant is different. She calls me by my first name, and I her. We've been through a lot together and she's been my accountant for nearly ten years.

Does it really matter.
Kids have no issue calling them miss or mr etc, and it creates a boundary.
Maybe teachers don't want there pupils calling them by first names and would rather just friends do as it creates a professional boundry.

@W00t I do agree with that, but when you're in for 3 weeks being called 'mum' all the time when you know all the nurses names and have asked them to call you your name is a bit annoying!

That's just me though!

When I worked at No 10 we used to sign correspondence off with Mrs X Surname rather than first names. In the last 10 years as well.

Also many kids just use sir or miss
Rather than mr x , miss x , mrs X.

I worked in a school and all the parents referred to the head by his first name as though he was a friend of theirs. I always felt it was over familiar and life would have been much easier if they had referred to him as Mr ....... but he preferred it this way.

Quite odd really as he was such a stickler for uniform, manners etc - ties straight, hands out of pockets etc.