Morrisons to ban shoppers who refuse to wear face masks

[MrsMando]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55618408

People who have suffered such a trauma and find masks hard to wear would have had 'official' help after the assault, so would be able to get an official letter

You need to look around and see more than you currently do.
There are literally thousands of rape victims who never tell a soul, for many and varied reasons that are also fuck all to do with anyone.
But one main problem is that if one bothers to report, whilst waiting to maybe possibly get to court which assuming theres any evidence (please note pretty much all rapes are in private) then you are not allowed to access help. Because that may put the case at risk. This has been known to be two years from reporting to court time. Rape is not just unwanted PIV sex, it's also potentially much much more.
So then we get to domestic violence. It's possible to have only one incident of violence then the woman leaves (I admit this is rare) but she will carry those mental scars for ever. Those may include a fear of anything near the face. And to add women going through domestic violence who haven't yet told anyone. And are as yet too terrified to tell anyone.
Maybe think before you post such drivel.

@Gurufloof

People who have suffered such a trauma and find masks hard to wear would have had 'official' help after the assault, so would be able to get an official letter

You need to look around and see more than you currently do.
There are literally thousands of rape victims who never tell a soul, for many and varied reasons that are also fuck all to do with anyone.
But one main problem is that if one bothers to report, whilst waiting to maybe possibly get to court which assuming theres any evidence (please note pretty much all rapes are in private) then you are not allowed to access help. Because that may put the case at risk. This has been known to be two years from reporting to court time. Rape is not just unwanted PIV sex, it's also potentially much much more.
So then we get to domestic violence. It's possible to have only one incident of violence then the woman leaves (I admit this is rare) but she will carry those mental scars for ever. Those may include a fear of anything near the face. And to add women going through domestic violence who haven't yet told anyone. And are as yet too terrified to tell anyone.
Maybe think before you post such drivel.

This may all be the case but my comments still stand - there is no reason for them to be in the supermarket without a face covering. None. Alternatives are available for them to use that don’t involve putting themselves and others at risk.

Up and down the country there are community groups doing shopping and errands for those who can’t get out.

Time for masks to be made compulsory in shops. No excuses. No mask - no entry.

People who can’t wear masks and can’t do their shopping online - find someone to help you. There are ways round it.

No mask, no entry, no excuses and no groups of shoppers. Max one adult and child/ren if only parent.
If you are exempt then you can get help with your shopping, there are people falling over themselves to help. Contact a voluntary group. It is time to get serious with this.

@Gurufloof "Those may include a fear of anything........."

Exactly - so we cannot prevent 'anything' - the million triggers that are individual

Just as an example I know someone who is a victim of sever DV - hospitalised in ITU because of it - a trigger for her is a particular sound which does occur when she is out and about. She is a nurse and wears face coverings etc as a job requirement.

For now if you can't wear a mask get your groceries delivered. Think about the poor shop workers rather than yourself.

My dad has COPD and could technically be exempted. He tends not to go out as covid would probably be fatal for him but if he has to he wears a mask. He said it makes absolutely no difference to his breathing and why on earth would he not wear one given that he is the last person on earth who wants to get covid.

Because you can say you are exempt without any proof we are going to have to say No Mask, No Entry.

Someone is quoting that aftershave triggers memories. I am afraid there is no answer to that. You cannot cover every single eventuality so for now it means that if you cannot wear a mask/chose not to wear a mask you will need to find another way. I am an NHS volunteer and do shopping for people that cannot go out. There are slots - people just dont want to think that far ahead or say they dont want to use Waitrose, Sainsburys or that the only shop they use is Aldi (and they dont do deliveries!).

Please think of the people you are potentially affecting, the shop workers, people around you rather than your own personal circumstances however genuine they are. It wont be long before we get out of this.

And there are ways to do things. I feel just some people want to do what they always have without thinking more creatively. I have been stopped from doing many things I have been used to doing and its awful. My DS has had his A Levels cancelled, his uni course is in turmoil, my other child has recently started a job. He hasnt met his manager and is in a flat in the North on his own working from home.

Get shopping delivered
Speak to NHS responders (I can confirm others are!)
Book the first slot you can even if its a couple of weeks away
Call a supermarket. There are slots available for situations like this
Ask a family member
Ask a neighbour
Ask your partner
Ask your children

Anyone who genuinely cannot wear a mask for medical reasons would be well advised not to go out at all, for their own protection. Asthmatics should either wear a mask if they go out (as all those I know do) or stay home to minimise their own risk of Covid. Those who think that being sedated and on a ventilator is OK are obviously not aware of CPAP - look it up, not a pleasant experience.

Some the reasons stated are truly awful but realistically we have to decide based on our medical evidence what we are going to do for the next month when entering public spaces. Some people are really frightened. Some dont go shopping at all (so there are ways to get food delivered).

What I am upset about is that some people just dont want to accept there is a pandemic (or that there is but the rules dont apply to them)

When you get on a plane you are required to wear a belt. No exceptions. It might be uncomfortable, your child might scream the place down when you try and put it on but ultimately there isnt a choice. If you dont want to wear a belt, or refuse to put one on you will be escorted off the plane.

I think people throw around “think of the rape survivors!!11!!” as a means of immediately shutting down a discussion to narrow mask exemptions. Cases are higher than ever and the new strain is more transmissible, meaning low mask compliance is more dangerous than ever. Does their potential trauma wearing mask at this current moment in time truly outweigh the risk to others and public health?

If we continue to allow such a broad range of exemptions to go through, other groups of vulnerable people would be placed at higher risk and potentially get seriously ill - there’s no solution and we’ll end up staying in the perpetual cycle we’ve experienced for a year.

Realistically to break the cycle, changes need to be made. If that means people that are exempt need to temporarily stay at home until cases are reduced to a manageable level, so be it. Surely provisions can be made for them akin to the shielding group for a few months.

Sofia. I agree. I have asthma. I wear a mask to protect myself and others around me. If I couldnt wear a mask I would have to get my DH to do the shopping (its my job normally - but needs must). He isnt as good as me but hey ho.

I would be looking now for an online slot. Book the first one I can.

Very soon there will be someone who says they cannot possibly do the shopping without xx, who has no one in the world to ask, who dont want to call NHS responders (I can tell you that people call us for all sorts of things, shopping is given the highest priority, further up then Check in and Chat).

And yes - this is TEMPORARY. Its not forever...

They haven’t been compulsory, lemonandlimes, not what I’d call compulsory anyway.
Placard outside my Sainsbury’s local says, ‘You are required to wear a face covering unless you are exempt or have a reasonable excuse.’
Perfect get-out for anyone who just doesn’t feel like wearing one.

In France signs outside shops say ‘Masks obligatory’ - no messing.

At the very least, anyone genuinely exempt should have to wear or show something officially issued, not something they just printed off the internet. And wear a visor.

I think the supermarkets are changing precisely nothing. The people who can wear masks already are. The people who can’t wear them obviously still can’t and the people who won’t, will still claim that they’re exempt, because they’re fully aware that retail staff aren’t allowed to question them any further and it shuts down any further discussion.

I suspect that we may shortly go the way of some other countries and have a ‘no mask, no entry, no exemptions’ rule.

And the ableism continues.

Trigeminal neuralgia sufferers often can't tolerate anything around their heads, even a visor. Some get attacks simply from putting on a jumper.

Likewise, some people with autism would not be able to tolerate a face covering in any form. Not all, but some. Because people with autism are not a homogenous group. In the same way as anyone with a medical condition or disability.

Many shops employ staff who cannot wear a mask for either of the above reasons, for other medical or psychological reason. A reason that does not make them CEV, but means they cannot wear a mask or face covering. What should happen to them? Should they too be locked away? Lose their jobs because they can't wear a mask?

Again, why is MNHQ not commenting on this thread? Or does that just confirm that it's ok to be disablist on MN!

@Bathroom12345

And there are ways to do things. I feel just some people want to do what they always have without thinking more creatively. I have been stopped from doing many things I have been used to doing and its awful. My DS has had his A Levels cancelled, his uni course is in turmoil, my other child has recently started a job. He hasnt met his manager and is in a flat in the North on his own working from home.

Get shopping delivered
Speak to NHS responders (I can confirm others are!)
Book the first slot you can even if its a couple of weeks away
Call a supermarket. There are slots available for situations like this
Ask a family member
Ask a neighbour
Ask your partner
Ask your children

I completely agree. I sympathise with those who cannot wear masks but if you can't, don't go shopping! There are plenty of other options.

I saw a couple I know shopping wearing face masks. When they were at the checkout masks off, sunflower lanyards on. Then when they paid they were packing their bags at the packing shelf with people walking close to them.

I live in London, shopping slots are like hens teeth round here. I've just looked and there is nothing available locally for as far ahead as it will let you book, not even Click and Collect (which is no use unless you have a car anyway), except for Iceland. Now I like Iceland, but it's range of goods is limited. It's not difficult to see how that might not suit the needs of a family.

I think in all the assumptions as well we are forgetting about carers in this. Thinking of families who have older children/ adults with autism. They may not only be unable to mask wear, but cannot be left at home safely either. In a single parent family there may be no alternative other than for them to go to the shop with their parent/carer, especially given that many special schools, colleges and day centres are also currently closed as a result of Covid restrictions.

Can we just show a little empathy? Most people wear masks who can; most not wearing them genuinely cannot. But no, let's follow the suggestion of posters upthread and overload GPs further at a time when we are being told the NHS is stretched by asking them to give letters to people saying they have a 'genuine' reason.

@Grenlei "Most people wear masks who can; most not wearing them genuinely cannot"

Really???

Ableism still reigns on MN i see

Take it up with the people pretending to have disabilities that they don't have,

It really isnt about abelism. Its about keeping everyone safe in a pandemic. No one's rights/desires/needs trumps other peoples right to live a health and happy life.

If a decision you have to make for whatever reason affects others it does then become something society as a whole needs to get involved with.

Going to a supermarket when there are others ways means that until this pandemic is over we need to behave differently. We are all suffering - there is no one I know who doesnt feel the affects of this virus and we have all been touched in someway.

Ableism? Since when is being a rape survivor a disability?

The arguments against this are all over the place. Is it about disability or is it about trauma? What if I have trauma because a relative died from Covid due to contact with maskless people at work - maybe I’m triggered by seeing an exempt person in the shop. Whose needs are prioritized?

It’s simple. No mask no enter. Genuine exemptions should require a card issued only by GPs or medical staff. In many countries this is already the rule.

I think some people just want to use a personal reason (and some of them are unique to them ONLY) to ensure that the whole of the UK makes rules that cover their specific scenario.

Then others jump in saying what about my scenario, or mine or mine?

I still think people arent trying hard enough to think around an issue. They make it all about themselves and then of course you get the people who just cannot be bothered...

@bobbojobbo

Ableism still reigns on MN i see

Take it up with the people pretending to have disabilities that they don't have,

That is not the fault of the people who have genuine exemptions.