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Men Behaving Badly- Dear God, was it always this horrible?!

190 replies

EreLongDoneDoDoesDid · 02/01/2021 18:06

A Tier 4 Christmas has caused DH and I to turn to the TV for some telly comfort food.

A few nights ago we started watching Men Behaving Badly on Netflix. This was a show that I remember with a lot of affection from my early teens and DH felt the same way. Aside from the Christmas episode- which I stand by as being a great slice of Christmas comedy- we hadn’t watched any of them since the early noughties.

For reference MBB began in 1992. I was 12 and didn’t watch the early series, coming in at around the series 4 mark (although I did see the earlier series later, probably in my mid to late teens). It ran for a total of six series and there was a Christmas special in 1997 and then a trilogy which ended the whole thing off in 1998. It launched the careers of Martin Clunes and Caroline Quentin and brought Neil Morrissey and Leslie Ash to prominence after some years in minor roles. Harry Enfield was also in the first series and my understanding is that he was pretty well known comedian and added a bit of a star turn to it.

In case you’re not British or were living in a hole during the 90s it was a bawdy, un-PC half hour BBC comedy (actually, it started out on ITV for the first two series) and the premise was that Gary, a 30ish year old security sales manager, lives in a flat in London with his flatmate (and friend from uni) Dermot. They’re both immature misogynists whose passions are drinking down the local (grotty) boozer, drinking cans of Stella at home and talking about women they’d like to shag. Gary has a girlfriend, nurse Dorothy, but Dermot doesn’t have a regular girlfriend, instead chasing largely unobtainable women, including the woman who owns the flat upstairs, Deborah. Gary owns the flat and has a steady job, Dermot pays him rent (or more often doesn’t) and is in and out of work. Dermot leaves after series 1 and is replaced by Tony, but Tony occupies the exact same space as Dermot, just with a northern accent. So far, so The-Inbetweeners-15-years-on.

But it’s just awful. Really awful. By the time the show ended I was in my late teens and I don’t remember the world being this....unpleasant nor the show being so broad and offensive. The men are just... idiots and the women shrill and nagging, hen-pecking the men and seeming to not like them at all. The language is really offensive, with the women referred to as “bints”, “bitches” and “slags” and constant references to sex that also border on being unacceptable.

The central romances between Gary and Dorothy and Tony and Deborah are horrible in their own quite different ways: Dorothy seems to despise Gary, and who could blame her because he’s knob. But equally he doesn’t seem to like her at all either, doing everything he can to avoid any kind of real commitment to her. Their relationship is depressing: They constantly argue, seemingly only getting along when it comes to sex (though Dorothy spends much of her time rejecting Gary’s advances). The relationship is quite parental, with Gary as the naughty school boy and Dorothy the mother who just spends her whole time telling him off. They aren’t really ever that nice to one another, and although the message is clearly meant to be that they’ve got each other’s backs when the chips are down, that isn't as clear here in 2021 as it was obviously meant to be in 1995. They also both cheat on one another more than once. Dorothy even sleeps with Tony, which Gary hardly seems to care about.

Tony and Deborah’s romance is equally depressing in a different way: Tony is a sad, sex-obsessed and mopes around the flat all day, drinking lager that he buys with his JSA. He pines over Deborah in the flat and she spends all her time knocking him back and going out with other people. Until the last series when she’s reached her late 30s and basically goes out with him out of desperation. They’re also not very nice to one another but with Tony being more thick bloke who pines and her being slightly less acid-tongued than Dorothy.

There are also some questionable running themes: marriage is often discussed negatively by Gary and Dorothy in a way that maybe was meant to feel modern because she wants it no more than he does, but they do end up almost marrying and later having a baby and you don’t get the feeling that either of them really wanted to (they were just out of any other options). The women as killjoys theme has been discussed and is weaved into the very fabric of the show, whilst the men act like teenagers and avoid the women’s attempts to spoil their fun. There is also a really unpalatable theme about very young girls being fair game throughout the show... Gary makes reference to his desire to shag his 17yo niece several times, at one point saying that she has “buttocks like a racehorse”. Watching it, me and my husband literally shouted “Christ no!” in unison. So bad!

We were also shocked at how much the characters drink and smoke. Culturally the world seems hugely different to now, much more different to how I remember it. Drinking and smoking is done constantly and without question. We also have a good laugh and how rich these characters are. Both Gary and Deborah are 30/31/32ish at the start of the series and both own the 2 bed flats that they live in (that seem to be a conversion of an older house). They live in Ealing and such a flat there now would cost circa £500k. No conceivable way that a middle manager of a security firm and a restaurant manager (which is Deborahs job) would be able to get mortgages, alone, on these properties now.

So my question is this- for someone who was a child and then a teenager throughout the run of this show... were things really this different? It looks like a different world to the one we are in now to the extent that it’s hard to believe it was only 30 odd years ago.

Is this how people felt in the 90s when repeats of beloved 60s and 70s sitcoms were shown? Will we feel like this about the big sitcoms of the teenies like The Inbetweeners, Him and Her, Friday Night Dinner and People Just Do Nothing? Or was this show actually really horrible at the time, I just didn’t notice because I was so young?

OP posts:
Belleende · 03/01/2021 12:55

@BogRollBOGOF I totally disagree with your assessment of Little Britain. They were not universally offensive. They almost exclusively punched down, and they reserved their greatest bile for women. They offended me then, and continue to do so today.

Whilst they have learned that vicious tropes such as Vikki Pollard just wont play today, they have done fuck all since then to earn their place on prime time TV, they are still living off this past 'glory'.

Mirrorxx · 03/01/2021 13:02

@MrsGulDukat I still love gimme gimme gimme. I don’t think it has aged as badly as men behaving badly. And the ending of gimme gimme gimme is still great and so sad

Iamthewombat · 03/01/2021 13:53

I totally disagree with your assessment of Little Britain. They were not universally offensive. They almost exclusively punched down, and they reserved their greatest bile for women. They offended me then, and continue to do so today.

Agreed. The people laughing at Little Britain were not doing so because they thought it was meta and cunningly laughing at people who laugh at stereotypes.

The majority of the people laughing at Little Britain did so because they thought these things were funny:

  • incontinent older women with learning difficulties (the ‘Anne’ character)
  • overweight older women who thought that they might still be attractive (the ‘Bubbles’ and ‘Desiree’ characters)
  • young women with little education (‘Vicki Pollard’)
  • trafficked Thai women (‘Ting Tong’).

Notice a theme?

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

MirandaWestsNewBFF · 03/01/2021 14:37

My husband and I are big sitcom buffs and we both loved MBB growing up, but since then have both found it harder to watch. The women are often the butt of the jokes - for example, in the episode where Tony has three girlfriends, or is planning to dump Pat. As time went on it did become slightly more nuanced but many episodes do now feel tired and dated. It certainly sets the bar very low for men. They’re not only objectionable and disrespectful but don’t seem to think much of their partners ever. There wasn’t much differentiation between Dorothy and Deborah. Deborah is “the pretty one”, and initially that’s all the storylines she has. Later, she evolved along the same lines as Dorothy but less acerbic and easier to fool. The exception is the Christmas episode which is still really well constructed with a lot of good visual jokes.

MirandaWestsNewBFF · 03/01/2021 14:39

Totally agree with the feeling on Little Britain. It is and has always been horrible, especially to women, and it punches down. David Walliams’ children’s books are like that too - just pointlessly nasty with no redeeming features.

user1471565182 · 03/01/2021 14:47

I used to watch GimmeGimmeGimme with my mum. Must have only been 9 years old. Is that a bit weird?

Gwenhwyfar · 03/01/2021 14:48

"The majority of the people laughing at Little Britain did so because they thought these things were funny:

  • incontinent older women with learning difficulties (the ‘Anne’ character)
  • overweight older women who thought that they might still be attractive (the ‘Bubbles’ and ‘Desiree’ characters)
  • young women with little education (‘Vicki Pollard’)
  • trafficked Thai women (‘Ting Tong’).

Notice a theme?"

You're being selective aren't you.
What about the middle class man who still breast fed? Or the nasty woman in a position of power in the fat fighters class?

Iamthewombat · 03/01/2021 14:50

Would you like me to list every Little Britain character and explain why each one was a bit nasty?

I won’t be doing that, because I can’t be bothered. The point has been made by me and other posters.

Gwenhwyfar · 03/01/2021 14:51

With the fat fighters woman the joke was clearly on her. Nothing nasty about it.

Iamthewombat · 03/01/2021 14:54

Keep on trying to defend Little Britain. I suppose you were one of the people repeating the hilarious catchphrases and now feel offended that other people thought it was awful?

Gwenhwyfar · 03/01/2021 14:56

@Iamthewombat

Keep on trying to defend Little Britain. I suppose you were one of the people repeating the hilarious catchphrases and now feel offended that other people thought it was awful?
No, I just like it.
CaptainMyCaptain · 03/01/2021 15:03

[quote cariadlet]@Handsoffstrikesagain Actually, I do think that Only Fools and Horses has aged badly. We still watch it now because dp and dd love it. A lot of it is very funny but there's a lot of casual sexism that passed me by first time round.

The episode that really pisses me off is when Delboy books a policewoman stripagram and is shocked when it turns out to be Raquel. The way he treats her and the fact that she's so understanding infuriates me. [/quote]
Doesn't that make the point, though, that it's different when the stripper is someone you know. Men who like that sort of thing wouldn't want it for their girlfriend, sister etc so it's a moral lesson.

I watched MBB when I was older than most of the people posting on here so it wasn't portraying my contempories. I laughed but in an 'aren't they all disgusting' way. I never thought it validated that life style. I liked Fawlty Towers but never wanted to stay in the hotel or be like any of the characters.

june2007 · 03/01/2021 15:07

I remember the Men behaving badly stag do one. Gary sleeps with a prostiture brought by Tony. Bu then he notices Dorothy has also slept with a Man. They were all pretty bad.

june2007 · 03/01/2021 15:11

Actually I think we laughed at the Anne Charecter because she obviously wan,t ill. The joke was on the carehomme/institure manager.
The fat fighters women was written in response to people I thinkMatt Lucas had actually met/his experience of WW type clubs.
The Laydees was bsed on their experience of really bad drag queens and cross dresses.
And yes I found it funny.

SinisterBumFacedCat · 03/01/2021 15:47

Ping Pong - the joke was also on the husband, she clearly was not Thai, or even a woman, but he was so inadequate he was prepared to overlook that for sexual favours.

Chumleymouse · 03/01/2021 15:48

Men behaving badly was shit, little Britain was quite funny ( i know a real life Vicky pollard ) Harry Enfield was brilliant . I used to love the 70’s comedy love thy neighbour, Alf garnett, steptoe and son. None of them were men’t to be real life , as with all comedy it’s just that .

user1471565182 · 03/01/2021 16:40

Actually I liked the Little Britain couple where the wife never said anything. Its like a documentary of my old best mates parents.

And the racist driving instructor who thought he was still in the police.

AriesTheRam · 03/01/2021 16:45

If you think that's aged badly then don't watch Bottom Grin they'd never get way with that now,loved it though.

BackforGood · 03/01/2021 17:52

What @BikeRunSki, @Bluegrass, and @user1471565182 all said, and I agree with @CaptainMyCaptain here -
I watched MBB when I was older than most of the people posting on here so it wasn't portraying my contempories. I laughed but in an 'aren't they all disgusting' way. I never thought it validated that life style. I liked Fawlty Towers but never wanted to stay in the hotel or be like any of the characters.

It was called 'Men Behaving Badly ' - the audience were supposed to be disgusted by their behaviour, not aspire to it.

BackforGood · 03/01/2021 17:58

Funnily enough, I'm just whiling away an hour watching TotP2 - and some of the stuff that the very mainstream Pans People did week in, week out on TotP looks very odd to my 2021 eyes. The costumes, the moves and basically what all looks wrong now, was very popular then, and a lot of people aspired to be a dancer in Pans People.
Context is everything.

cariadlet · 03/01/2021 18:15

If you think the old TOTP episodes with Pans People are bad, try watching some of the later ones with Hot Gossip. Even as a teenager, I used to think they were pretty outrageous for an early evening family friendly show.

wellthatsunusual · 03/01/2021 18:22

I have two words. Mini Pops. I remember thinking my mum was a terrible spoilsport for not allowing me to watch/listen to Mini Pops. She said they were entirely inappropriate, and not suitable for children or anyone else, and hinted at people who mistreat children (although I only realise that now).

I now look back and know she was 100% correct. (She would never allow me to watch Jim'll Fix It either although she couldn't put her finger on why she didn't like him, she just knew she didn't trust him. )

wherewildthingsare · 03/01/2021 18:32

You forgot that Gary is obsessed with Kylie minogue and in ( I think) the last ever episode he and Dorothy have a baby daughter that they name .....kylie

I don't like the show but ex bf was crazy about it.

cariadlet · 03/01/2021 18:44

Oh God, I'd managed to scrub Minipops out of my mind. That was really awful.

JamieLeesCurtains · 03/01/2021 18:53

God, when Jimmy Savile used to introduce Pan's People with 'here's something for all the dads watching' ...

Made me feel sick even back then.