ADs and the hardon colanders

[CruCru]

Here’s the new thread.

Said he believed the government had planned to take this decision already mid-week but didn't want to take it to a vote in the House.

I suspected this as well and I do wonder what this is going to mean for MP voting from now on. If they feel they've been deliberately hoodwinked on this MPs are going to be a lot less compliant voting for further lockdowns in January. Especially since they were prepping us with "5 days of freedom may mean January restrictions".

@Tootletum I agree.
I saw a doctor tweeting about how bad things are this weekend (as they are most winters I have no doubt, likely worse this year but how much worse?) “health is wealth”. It’s such an emotive statement and of course you don’t want to be the heartless one to put a price on someone’s life...
But honestly are we now at the point where ANY cost is justified in keeping deaths a little bit down? I say a little bit because viruses spread, it’s what they do, so the death rate is largely out of our control... Is it worth devastating the economy for a generation? Losing thousands or even millions their life savings, their mental health, their jobs, their businesses, their homes?

We could get rid of road deaths overnight by banning cars but clearly we have decided that cars are too useful and the deaths they cause are worth it. There is an implied cost-benefit there ...
Logically there needs to be a maximum price we, as a society, are willing to pay to slightly reduce the spread of CV with its horrific mortality rate of around 0.02% or whatever it is. Maybe it is a high number but there does need to be a limit and as a society we should be talking about it.

Re the point about people driving home on Christmas Day drunk or tired and more likely to have an accident... I mean, it’s as nonsensical as the 10pm curfew or the substantial meal rubbish isn’t it? The virus sleeps on Christmas Day don’t you know, but watch out on Boxing Day.
Surely it would make more sense for the government to say you are permitted one VISIT? - that visit could be an hour, it could be two days.. but for that period you are one household. I can see they don’t want people popping in and out of each other’s houses but if you’re already with someone all day what is the possible issue with spending a night?

THIS!

Paul Mason
@paulmasonnews
·
2m
By talking up the mutant virus and talking down their own incompetence the govt has handed every neighbouring country the right to shut down travel and supply. We're effectively cut off. Well played Boris.

Me from the Christmas to be cancelled thread in the early hours of Saturday morning.

MercyBooth Sat 19-Dec-20 02:25:21
The government and the virus will undoubtedly bow to your not at all unreasonable demands

Well after what ive just seen i dont think they will have to. Other countries will do it for them when they see our MSM salivating over this new strain

The above is when we were discussing flights.

How will the Pfizer vaccine get here. Carrier pigeons.

@zigaziga thank you, yes! It is such a relief to be able to share what I think are reasonable questions about relative risk and relative harm. That's the thing. My father died because he was told he would die if he didn't stop smoking. So in the new morality, that apparently should not have been his choice because we now have people telling 80 year olds that they must take no risks with covid even if they don't mind dying, in order not to burden the NHS. My father spent some pointless time in ICU, no doubt taking away space from someone more "worthy". Since when is that how we see illness?? And yes I completely agree that healthcare capacity is a huge issue, and once you've maxed it out you're a bit fucked. It's just all the accompanying rhetoric, the aggressive blaming, the assumption that everyone else is the problem and they themselves are perfect and only do the right thing except of course when it's justified by whatever. And all they can think of is covid, not ruined lives, traumatised kids, bust pubs, depression, suicide, I mean what the fucks the point of this life??

But they are ones who did that. If they calmed down, stop ordering mass testing etc, people would calm down. Even now. They could get the media to stop the melodrama. It seems, according to OFCOM, they encourage it.
Absolutely this. It's so plainly obvious the government has a significant influence on the media: shutting down reporting of protests, constantly leaking what "might" happen. They think we've forgotten "more testing means more positives are found", which the government deliberately translates to "virus spreading more".

Good point also about MPs thinking they've been hoodwinked. Bring on the rebellion, especially if they've suddenly been banned from seeing their families.

wanderings no one will stop MPs from mixing, look at Margaret Ferrier.

@MoltenLasagne

Said he believed the government had planned to take this decision already mid-week but didn't want to take it to a vote in the House.

I suspected this as well and I do wonder what this is going to mean for MP voting from now on. If they feel they've been deliberately hoodwinked on this MPs are going to be a lot less compliant voting for further lockdowns in January. Especially since they were prepping us with "5 days of freedom may mean January restrictions".

Charles Walker, incidentally, is vice chair of the 1922 committee, so I daresay he has a decent handle of what's going on the government.

Not sure if anyone remembers, but he was the one who spoke up very powerfully when Hague tried to pass the Getting Rid of Bercow legislation in 2015 and all the opposition applauded. And in the "take note" mental health debate, he talked about his OCD struggles.

He strikes me as a decent bloke with integrity.

The Bercow debate speech:
m.youtube.com/watch?v=tbL3IMbYvAY

Removal of liberties speech:
m.youtube.com/watch?v=c8eq8W4-zeM

Also, if this "new strain" is being exploited to justify cancelling Christmas (which I strongly suspect is the case), I wonder if Boris is going to give the game away as follows, when he and his merry men decide it's time to reverse the scaremongering:

"It turns out the new strain wasn't as bad as we thought..."

On hearing this, people might then be very angry that Christmas was ruined for something which wasn't as bad as they thought. No, it was just used as a bogeyman to stop people mixing over Christmas.

People are terrified. They think it’s a deadly strain and that we are just not being told

They are on the Corona board at least. It's all like, "This is it now, we will be living like this forever." Do you think they actually believe it, or are they just doom mongers?

This strain has been here since September! It makes literally no sense. Surely this is just the usual seasonal spike in respiratory illness situation..?

It really is project fear isn't it?

I think it's genuine that it does spread more, jury's out on other effects. I've read quite a lot on it this afternoon and this seems like a good summary of what is and isn't known,

www.bbc.com/news/health-55388846

They have just closed dover. This is looking bad.

@MrsArchchancellorRidcully

They have just closed dover. This is looking bad.

I’m convinced some of the restrictions here are part of negotiations with the EU. They have found an extra means of punishment.

I’m not working tomorrow, I was going to go the bank and supermarket in the morning but the supermarket will be hell. I cant do my usual 9pm Aldi dash as I’m booked to talk to my cousins, who I’ve not seen since March as they were in local lockdown.

@Jourdain11

They are on the Corona board at least. It's all like, "This is it now, we will be living like this forever." Do you think they actually believe it, or are they just doom mongers?

This strain has been here since September! It makes literally no sense. Surely this is just the usual seasonal spike in respiratory illness situation..?

Yes. I think Chris Whitty said this is causing mild colds but can’t find a transcript.

Shall we, the ADs, campaign collectively to MNHQ to stop Coronavirus threads appearing on "trending now", or just make it possible to hide "trending now"? I expect most of us have hidden the Coronavirus topic, since it's where the snitches go to polish their haloes, and to preach to the converted. So many times, all five things on "trending now" have been threads from the Coronavirus topic, which I have, of course, hidden. I'm posting a lot of "YABU to post this outside the Coronavirus topic", and then hiding the thread so I don't see the indignant replies.

In that Telegraph article it says Matt Hancock 'condemned “totally irresponsible” Londoners who packed stations on Saturday night to flee the capital'.

Surely that's the wrong way round: Londoners would want to stay in London and it would be out-of-Londoners who would be 'fleeing' the capital to get home. The rich Londoners with second homes wouldn't be slumming it on the train, they'd be driving, or driven.

They have shut Holyhead to domestic only wagons going into Ireland with goods are now allowed I only caught this because of a farmer on FB no movement of lamb so no point in taking them to auction now.

@amicissimma

In that Telegraph article it says Matt Hancock 'condemned “totally irresponsible” Londoners who packed stations on Saturday night to flee the capital'.

Surely that's the wrong way round: Londoners would want to stay in London and it would be out-of-Londoners who would be 'fleeing' the capital to get home. The rich Londoners with second homes wouldn't be slumming it on the train, they'd be driving, or driven.

I expect there's a fair number of people who live in London but have family in another bit of the country. Young singletons going back to mum & dad's, couples / families who live in London for work but have extended family in a different bit of the country and have decided to go while they had a chance. There was a quote from a woman getting the train out with her husband and toddler saying they were going to her parents on the coast to avoid being in lockdown in a small flat over Xmas. Leaving meant spending as with parents, kid seeing grandparents, a garden to play in, countryside to walk in. The grandparents had said to come, so they were. My guess is a lot of people would have been in a similar situation.

I guess it depends on how you define 'londoner'.

Well people went home to family earlier than expected because xmas was planned. I am sure they had been careful not to take risks before going no-one wants to kill granny do they. The trouble is in the rush on crowded public transport they may spread it anyway.

Boris and the scientists whipping up fear of a mutant strain to keep us in line has bitten them on the ass now because so many countries have now banned travel of people, food etc. to and from Britain. Well bloody done you plonkers.

Russian covid scientist falls out of window. Seems to be a favoured thing in Russia

www.dailystar.co.uk/news/world-news/scientist-working-covid-vaccine-found-23197309