To end the stigma of giving birth via C-Sections? Any personal experience of this?

[christmastreesparklex]

Hi all

Discussion: Birth Choice, C-Section and recent Shrewsbury Scandal

I have come across an article, that resonates with me, not only on a personal level but also knowing several of my friends and family members have suffered with.

graziadaily.co.uk/life/real-life/c-section-elective-nhs/

I apologise if there has already been similar discussions, please link me if there has been!

On a personal level, I do not yet have DC. I have been diagnosed with health anxiety and general anxiety disorder and due to the nature of anxiety, I have spent many years leading up to TTC worrying about childbirth, even researching leads me to sweaty hands/ feeling sick.. fantastic! One of my main concerns is how unpredictable childbirth can be and whilst I have not yet come to a conclusion on whether I would like to request a ELCS (I understand that this is absolutely not an easy option without (additional) risks) I feel that this choice is in a way taken away from me and I am fully aware of the difficulties other women have had requesting one without a 'fight'. This only heightens my anxiety further.

My own mother nearly died giving birth and her second birth, with me, was much smoother with an ELCS. She suffered years of PTSD with the first birth and has always said to me to consider ELCS, I admit my mother is not a midwife or a doctor so I do take it with a pinch of salt that this advice has come from her experiences.

Having this discussion with other friends/family members, who have faced similar knock backs, a friend of mine was was recently listed all the health risks of a CS by her consultant but not a natural birth. She felt made to feel guilty and almost bullied to request an ELCS, she decided to take their professional opinion and try naturally, her birth ended up being an emergency c-section, due to shoulder dystocia and she bitterly regrets not going with her gut instinct and being swayed to have a natural birth.

Why is there such a stigma with C-Sections? Are they really more riskier to your health than the risks associated with vag births?

Has anyone else faced similar? If so, what are your experiences? To those who are pregnant do you feel pressured to have a natural birth?

Do you think the Shrewsbury scandal will lead to positive changes in this respect?

FYI: I am not a journalist and I do not give my permission to publish this post on any websites, including daily mail.

I had an elective cesarean because I am afraid of giving birth naturally. I very much agree there shouldn't be a stigma around it, and it should be respected as an informed birth choice.

I wasn't pressured to have a natural birth although I had assumed I would be. They were actually very understanding about it and I didn't feel judged for my decision.

I have so many friends who feel like a failure after having Emergency sections. It tainted the first few months of their newborns life. I also know people who acted like a superhero/Mother Earth for giving vaginally. I saw on a thread the other day someone called a c section something else, can’t remember what but it was like an elective surgical birth or something like that. It made me feel so sad they had to re-name it to try to convince themselves they had given birth (which they totally had). There is definitely stigma and yet all that matters is a healthy safe delivery, however that takes place.

@ForestNymph thats brilliant and a step in the right direction for sure. Do you mind saying where you gave birth and if so an approximate time frame of when, i.e the year! I understand if you would like to keep this to yourself!

Did you feel pressured at all?

Thank you for sharing!

@SandysMam i agree i have also seen this on multiple threads on here too. I wonder if its the 'natural birth' culture within the hospitals too that rub off on to the public? There has been previous comments from those who work in the industry where others see it as 'a shame' and pity those who haven't progressed for the natural birth and has to go to c section. Why! This infuriates me.
As you say why should it matter provided the mother and baby is safe!

I had an emergency section with first & chose to have elective section the second time. My mil (not known for her tact) was the only one to comment & blamed a condition my eldest had on c-section.

Luckily I'm a strong person & I sent her away with a flea in her ear & she never mentioned it again 😉

[quote christmastreesparklex]@ForestNymph thats brilliant and a step in the right direction for sure. Do you mind saying where you gave birth and if so an approximate time frame of when, i.e the year! I understand if you would like to keep this to yourself!

Did you feel pressured at all?

Thank you for sharing![/quote]
I don't want to say where but it was about 6 years ago that I had my first one. I didn't really feel pressured, I explained to my midwife that I am afraid of it and after researching it I would prefer to have a cesarean. They said it was fine and referred me to a consultant, I said the same thing to her and she said as long as I understood and consented, I could have one. I had to sign some consent forms and say that I had chosen it myself and that was that

My mother had three sections in the 70s and was left with very strong feelings of having 'failed' as a woman (exacerbated by my sister refusing to breast feed). I had my first vaginally, then a CS due to breech, then a CS due to placenta previa. I think my matter-of-factness helped my mother heal - we do whatever is necessary to have the baby safely. And thank heavens we live at a time and place where the option is available and relatively safe, or I wouldn't have been here to birth my own beautiful children.

I guess my experience was a bit different having had an EMCS rather than an ELCS, but I never personally felt any stigma about it and no one has ever commented 🤷🏼‍♀️

I had a medically required EMCS in the end but was booked for a maternal request c section. I was told I would require induction, continuous monitoring and high chance of instrumental delivery and so I told the consultant a c section was in my opinion a less traumatic route than this. They were completely supportive. Not all trusts will pressure you into a vaginal birth, you might not have as much a fight on your hands as you think.

I felt like a failure and sometimes still do, that my body failed to do what millions of other women are capable of. I have had two sections now and if and if I am blessed with another child will likely need another. I have come to accept that I would have lost my babies, (high risk of stillbirth) if I had gone overdue which I was not allowed to do. I am grateful for modern medicine as my children couldn't have come into the world safely without it.

I wouldn't have chosen to have sections, the recovery took longer than the average natural birth in my situation.

A caesarean isn't necessarily more risky, its just a different set of risks and women should be given the pros and cons of both options and these should cover long term risks as well as short term, for example urinary incontinence is more likely with a vaginal birth (40% versus 29%).

I've had a natural delivery, an emergency section, and two planned sections. The two planned sections were my favourites - calm, controlled, and relaxed. I was one of the very few woken to get everything on their birth plan because I knew more or less exactly what was going to happen on the day and I could focus on the baby while the medical team did their work. I had the curtain lowered and the baby delivered onto my chest for immediate skin-to-skin, they depayed clamping the cord until it stopped pulsing, then the curtain went back up so they could do their thing, the midwife popped a nappy on the baby and then the baby stayed tucked inside the top of my gown having skin to skin the whole time we were in theatre, they did weighing and measuring and I breastfed once we were in recovery.

I know it's different but my baby was breech so I had a c-section. I didn't feel like I'd missed out on anything. I did have one friend say c-sections are the easy option but I let it wash over me. She was planning on a breech natural birth for her third (who did turn before) which is something I'd personally never want to do (I didn't tell her that). I think birth is such an emotive and personal thing and that everyone should be allowed to make an informed choice without being lectured at.

I will say though that I've been trying for dc2 for three years (inc 3 failed ivf and one early miscarriage) and I do wonder if my c-section scar lead to the blocked Fallopian tube I have and the fact that sometimes my scar shows as full of fluid on scans. I'll never know if it is because of that or not.

I don't think there is a stigma surrounding c sections anymore or if there is it's certainly a lot less than 10 years ago? Unless it's those requesting them because they feel a self diagnosed general anxiety about childbirth (as opposed to actually having a clinical diagnosis of anxiety)

I have to say though my experience with a planned c section is not a good one. I had one due to a breech baby. Within 2 years I'd nearly died twice from ruptured ectopic pregnancies caused by scar tissue and adhesions from the c section damaging my tubes. I lost them both and was completely infertile by age 36. I've had to go through 5 rounds of IVF and £35k to have another baby. I bitterly regret the c section

@seven201

I will say though that I've been trying for dc2 for three years (inc 3 failed ivf and one early miscarriage) and I do wonder if my c-section scar lead to the blocked Fallopian tube I have and the fact that sometimes my scar shows as full of fluid on scans. I'll never know if it is because of that or not.

Yes I was left infertile and lost both tubes because of scar tissue from my c section. It's not a risk I recall being discussed at the time by the doctors but I know so many people who have experienced the same that it should be at the top of the list when discussing pros and cons of c sections

I had an emergency c section with my twins and now work within maternity since having them (I’m not a clinician).

I had severe tokophobia and requested an ELCS from the outset as a result of this - the obstetricians were extremely dismissive of this request. In the end my husband had to come with me and insist they booked me in, which they did.

Caesareans are higher risk for mothers than vaginal birth and slightly lower risk for babies. With DCDA twins the risk for all parties is marginally lower with a c section at 37 weeks than any other option although there’s not much in it, so they weren’t refusing me on the basis of risk.

I believe there has definitely been a push to reduce Caesarean birth rates which has led to an increased level of inductions and instrumental births, sometimes when not appropriate.

Caesareans are more expensive, require a longer postnatal stay, a surgeon (sometimes more than one), more anaesthetists on duty as they have to stay with you rather than administering an epidural and moving on, theatre time, theatre staff more care in recovery and postnatal etc. Overall they require far higher staffing (and more costly staffing) than a straightforward vaginal birth or an induction. Most local units only have one or two theatres, and if they are taken up with electives when there’s an emergency section needed that’s not a good scenario. I believe the costs, staffing and estates issues are more of a factor than the risks to be honest. As some of these reports show, induction where there are contraindications is very risky.

On a personal level I don’t feel any stigma in having had an EMCS but perhaps that’s because it was a critical situation and they needed to be born immediately. When I was admitted and on a monitor, about 5 mins before I was told I was going to theatre immediately, I had a lecture from an obstetrician- asking why I was having an ELCS. I didn’t tell her the whole story but did briefly explain I had tokophobia and I’d had a traumatic gynae treatment experience and she said “what, for endometriosis?” and rolled her eyes at me. Actually it was a mirena removal attempt that has really traumatised me as it was handled very badly by the gynaecologist and I no longer trust them to examine me even. But her attitude was very poor.

I know a lot of questions are being asked right now and things are being put in place, including more service user input (this is my area of work) and more work on informed consent.

Unless it's those requesting them because they feel a self diagnosed general anxiety about childbirth (as opposed to actually having a clinical diagnosis of anxiety)

For a lot of women they don’t have anxiety until they get pregnant, tokophobia often develops or worsens severely when pregnancy actually happens. If they do they don’t seek a diagnosis or treatment - why would you if you’re not pregnant? I went to specialist counselling during my pregnancy as my anxiety was so acute but I didn’t get a diagnosis of anything.

It’s so sad to hear that people feel it’s stigmatised as personally I have never felt that. I feel like it’s one of those things people say is stigmatised/not spoken about (perhaps like miscarriages) but within my circle there has never been any judgement and a lot of open discussion about these topics. I’ve had a vagina birth and a c section and while I preferred a ‘natural’ birth I had no qualms about the section when needed and no guilt. I think there’s far more pressure around breastfeeding than anything else.

I don’t think there is any shame in c sections. I’ve had four.

Blue light job with my youngest resulting in EMCS. Not how I planned it, but don't think there's much of a stigma. To save my life and baby's it had to be surgical intervention. Had three vaginal births before having the EMCS.

Vaginal birth so much easier in terms of recovery.

I have had an emcs and then wanted an ELCS but ended up with a VBAC because baby arrived early and I changed my mind about the CS.
Labour isn't great, I laboured both times, but when its over its over. The pain from a CS does drag on a bit even with the pain killers. I got the post birth happy hormones from my vbac so I felt on top of the world for the first few weeks. The scar from a cs takes a year to heal fully (no numbness or twinges) and I'm expecting the scar from my episiotomy to take the same to get rid of the same issues.
I was incontinent after my cs (I was when I was pregnant) but have been fine since my VBAC.
I did wish Id asked for an epidural with my second but I left it too late and I don't think I would have pushed her out if I had.
I had no problem getting pregnant after my cs.
The overall issue is birth a total unknown, at least you know the risks with a cs. I'm tempted to have third and if I do I will plan for another VBAC, if induction is mentioned though it will be straight to a cs.

Yes there’s definitely a stigma and there shouldn’t be. I haven’t had a section but I was called a wimp for having an epidural (that person was told to fuck off) I think some people think it makes you a ‘better woman’ to have gone through the pain and horrors of natural childbirth and an elective c section is opting out of that

I haven’t experienced stigma myself, though I know there’s pressure to bring the rates down, largely due to cost I expect.

The only time it pees me off is when it’s linked to a baby missing out on healthy microbe exposure (I’m very interested in the microbiome) where male “experts” (youtubers) are frequently dismissive as if caesarian is a free choice that women make, that’s against their baby’s best interests.

It’s misogyny.

It’s the idea that pregnant women are mere vessels for the baby, and the baby’s health matters more than the mother’s. If the woman suffers a terrible birth injury, oh well! At least the baby is OK! Your body is just collateral damage!

It’s about not giving women choice because the medical profession think we’re too stupid to weigh up the risks.

It’s about not listening to women in labour and not believing their pain levels.

It’s about a culture that prizes drug free natural birth.

I could go on.

After a natural birth and a third degree tear I was determined to have a section with my second baby. The consultant was very dismissive when it came to my fears. Gave me ALL the risks of c section, but wouldn’t acknowledge that vaginal birth carries risks too.

@Haworthia

It’s misogyny.

It’s the idea that pregnant women are mere vessels for the baby, and the baby’s health matters more than the mother’s. If the woman suffers a terrible birth injury, oh well! At least the baby is OK! Your body is just collateral damage!

It’s about not giving women choice because the medical profession think we’re too stupid to weigh up the risks.

It’s about not listening to women in labour and not believing their pain levels.

It’s about a culture that prizes drug free natural birth.

I could go on.

After a natural birth and a third degree tear I was determined to have a section with my second baby. The consultant was very dismissive when it came to my fears. Gave me ALL the risks of c section, but wouldn’t acknowledge that vaginal birth carries risks too.

I think its misogyny too. I hope you got your cesarean in the end.