To end the stigma of giving birth via C-Sections? Any personal experience of this?

[christmastreesparklex]

Hi all

Discussion: Birth Choice, C-Section and recent Shrewsbury Scandal

I have come across an article, that resonates with me, not only on a personal level but also knowing several of my friends and family members have suffered with.

graziadaily.co.uk/life/real-life/c-section-elective-nhs/

I apologise if there has already been similar discussions, please link me if there has been!

On a personal level, I do not yet have DC. I have been diagnosed with health anxiety and general anxiety disorder and due to the nature of anxiety, I have spent many years leading up to TTC worrying about childbirth, even researching leads me to sweaty hands/ feeling sick.. fantastic! One of my main concerns is how unpredictable childbirth can be and whilst I have not yet come to a conclusion on whether I would like to request a ELCS (I understand that this is absolutely not an easy option without (additional) risks) I feel that this choice is in a way taken away from me and I am fully aware of the difficulties other women have had requesting one without a 'fight'. This only heightens my anxiety further.

My own mother nearly died giving birth and her second birth, with me, was much smoother with an ELCS. She suffered years of PTSD with the first birth and has always said to me to consider ELCS, I admit my mother is not a midwife or a doctor so I do take it with a pinch of salt that this advice has come from her experiences.

Having this discussion with other friends/family members, who have faced similar knock backs, a friend of mine was was recently listed all the health risks of a CS by her consultant but not a natural birth. She felt made to feel guilty and almost bullied to request an ELCS, she decided to take their professional opinion and try naturally, her birth ended up being an emergency c-section, due to shoulder dystocia and she bitterly regrets not going with her gut instinct and being swayed to have a natural birth.

Why is there such a stigma with C-Sections? Are they really more riskier to your health than the risks associated with vag births?

Has anyone else faced similar? If so, what are your experiences? To those who are pregnant do you feel pressured to have a natural birth?

Do you think the Shrewsbury scandal will lead to positive changes in this respect?

FYI: I am not a journalist and I do not give my permission to publish this post on any websites, including daily mail.

I’m not aware of a stigma, maybe that means there isn’t one for the younger generations, maybe I’ve just been around women who’ve had them. I don’t know.

Every birth is different as you’ve said, I’m not sure reading up on other peoples experiences will ultimately be helpful since the scale of what yours can be like is so huge that you can’t possibly place yourself on it.

There is no easy way to give birth, whether it’s vag with no pain relief to epidural where you can’t move to a emcs/elcs which takes month of recovery.

I have no experience of c sections, (head sideways, epidural, 3 days then forceps) but labour and listening to women’s stories after birth makes you incredibly proud to be a woman and to experience that, however it may be.

I “failed” to give birth naturally both times (children born in consecutive years) and I’m still suffering from associated guilt and shame I feel that I’m not “woman” enough. Funny thing about it is that most of the time other women, other mothers make me feel this way. I’ve heard a lot, from “c section is an operation, not “birth experience”, and “there is no reason why a woman can’t have a vaginal birth if she’s prepared good enough”.
I don’t believe that a vaginal birth is amazingly healthier than c section though. Well, “ideal” absolutely not medicated smooth problem free vaginal birth is better. Not everyone is that lucky.

@ShirleyPhallus
In my case of normal recovery from a c section with no known health issues/complications doctors say you can try for another baby after 6 months which I did ( I got pregnant straight away). Even though I was induced being 42 weeks next year after having a first c section (they did it, even though I thought it was against the “rules”), the scar never showed any signs of a possible rupture etc. I ended up with a second c section though (failure to progress).

@firstimemamma

There is sadly stigma / some sort of judgement surrounding way to give birth imo. I had a water birth and people certainly have their opinions about that e.g. 'Why would u do it without drugs? Are u trying to be a hero?', 'Hippy dippy' etc. I know this thread is obviously about c-sections but my point is it's not just c-sections people have opinions on unfortunately. I think all ways of giving birth are amazing and u should never judge.

But that’s surely no different to breastfeeding vs formula, BLW vs traditional, cosleeping vs not cosleeping, baby led vs routine etc.

I have had 3 children and have given birth to them all vaginally with no complications.

I did so much research about birth and what could possibly result in a C section. Also read lots of anecdotes in case I needed one as to be honest the thought did terrify me.

I know there are so so many competitive, emotive and polarising aspects of parenthood right from birth. But I never got the impression and now on hearing about it can still not understand how there could possibly be any stigma or judgement around C section births. They are done out of medical necessity or to protect the wellbeing of the mother. I genuinely can't even begin to think about why there could possibly be any superiority complex around not having one.

If anyone reading my post has had a C section, I hope you are like me and have no thoughts whatsoever about it being something to feel somehow guilty or ashamed of. Your baby was brought safely into the world and now you have your whole lifetime to love and care for that baby 🌹🌸🌻

My mum had all 4 of us to c-section and we were all bottle fed. Having grown up knowing that I don’t see it as a stigma at all.

Conversely, all mine were home births and breastfed. I consider myself fortunate to have been able to do that but wouldn’t have cared if I couldn’t.

That said, as long as the end result - a healthy baby - was achieved I couldn’t give a fig about anyone else’s judgement.

It would be lovely if we could all have a nice easy delivery, like I had with DC two, small graze, back home within 24 hours hoovering the stairs.
DC1 ventouse extraction, more stitches than a triple bypass and unable to sit comfortably for six weeks.
DC3 emergency GA CS, recovery period a lot shorter than DC1.

All of the DC are much the same healthwise, the easiest 'natural' birth and exclusively breastfed until over a year old, resulted in the child with the chronic illness, which they have now recovered from.

Childbirth is a lottery, thats what my experience tell's me.

I'm pregnant at the minute and see a consultant due to clinically diagnosed anxiety.

She laughed when I asked about C sections and told me I 'wasn't allowed' to ask for one so there was no point talking about it . (I didn't necessarily want a c section, I just wanted to understand the risks/benefits).

It wasn't until I pulled up information from the NHS website that she admitted that I could request a c section... but that it was 'silly' to do so.

Thank god my midwife is more supportive.

@FestiveChristmasLights exactly! Couldn't agree more.

First I don't think your last sentence will prevent anything - this is a public forum after all.
The only 'negative' comment I ever got over my section was from my husband's ex, who, when she found out I had a section, said 'oh not a real birth then'. Felt pretty real to me!
I had two sections for medical reasons.

Well I had 3 'natural' births and found each experience uniquely horrifying and traumatic. I don't believe anyone should be made to go through a 'natural' birth as in my experience it is the most terrifying thing ever.

I had two maternal request sections. Like pp, I wanted something planned, with known risks, and a guarantee that I would get adequate pain relief and no chance of forceps.
I had to jump through a LOT off hoops first time round, three/four different consultations with various medical staff, all trying to dissuade. Finally got it agreed when I gave the consultant a letter setting out my reasons and my understanding of the risks.
Both went swimmingly, would do it again in a heartbeat. Both babies started to bf in recovery.
I did get a few snide comments, but ignored them. In fact the only person who seemed against it was my Dad, which was weird as my Mum and I nearly died when she had me, ended in a crash csection, totally traumatizing him and one of the reasons I went for a section in the first place....

The phrase “natural birth” really bothers me - a CS isn’t “unnatural”, nor is a vaginal birth with forceps more natural. We all need to get less squeamish about calling it what it is - a vaginal birth.

I had an EMCS with DD1, of my NCT group of 8, there were 2 ELCS, 3 EMCS and 3 VBs. we all wanted the straightforward VB, which is why we were at NCT, but realistically, we probably should have been better advised on all possible outcomes. Given that NCT tends to attract first time mums who are slightly older, there’s a significant chance those women will end up needing a CS, and they should be supported accordingly.

Statistically, vaginal births are safer, and have fewer complications, fewer risks and long term sequelae. Also much safer if you plan on having two or more children as the risks of a section increase with each one, but vaginal births usually get easier the more children you have. (usual mn caveat, this is across populations, and just because your individual case went badly, it doesn’t mean the stats are wrong).

So generally, in a normal, healthy woman, a vaginal birth should be the correct choice, and advised by clinicians.

I had mine over 10 years ago. I found the information in my hospital was very well balanced. I chose vaginal delivery for my first, but serious complications meant an EMCS before labour was established.

For my second I was referred to the VBAC clinic as soon as I had my booking in. There a specialist midwife went over my notes, the reasons why my first ended up CS, and the risks for a vaginal vs CS birth taking that into account. At no point was I pressured, I was simply given the facts and the risks. I was given some great, properly researched and referenced reading material, and asked to consider my options at let them know at 36 weeks.

I chose an elective section as my first labour hadn’t progressed, so I hadn’t previously dilated so was likely to have a “first labour” again, plus the issues that nearly killed my eldest may happen again and a ELCS is safer than a crash. I informed the VBAC clinic m/w of my choice, and I was booked in for the CS the following week.

That was it. No arguing, just informed choice.

I had two planned caesarians for medical reasons. Have to confess that, although I knew the chance of me being able to deliver naturally was remote at best, I picked one of the London hospitals with a higher rate of caesarians as I thought the conversation might be easier.

If I'm being critical, the consultant was a bit blasé during my first appointment - I have very restricted mobility in my hips from childhood arthritis, he didn't look at my hip range but concluded that I'd walked into the room quite happily so I should consider a natural birth. In fairness, it all sorted itself out in the end.

It feels a little odd to have given birth twice but not had a single contraction. However, I don't feel any stigma nor do I think people should feel that way about caesarians. The procedures themselves were calm and enjoyable.

I had an offer of an elective section from a consultant at the hospital doing my birth debrief. This was because of a traumatic birth where I lost 3L after a forceps delivery and developed sepsis. We've decided not to go ahead with a second kid, partly due to the birth, but good to know we had it in my notes if we did change our minds. They were really receptive and it was a relief to voice our concerns about how the birth had been handled as there were a couple of errors made pre and post birth.

@MotherWol I think often people say natural so they don’t have to say vagina when in company rather than trying to sound better or more earth mother-y. I also don’t think the idea of a c-section being ‘unnatural’ is a bad thing. It’s a fantastic intervention which has saved countless women and babies. Naturally a significant amount of babies in the past who has emergency sections would have died. ‘Naturally’ a proportion of babies would fail to thrive, starve and even die without unnatural formula (which is fanatic stuff). Just like ‘naturally’ cancer patients would die with chemotherapy etc. Nature is shit sometimes. A c-section to me isn’t natural but if both baby and mother are happy and healthy then it’s a raging success.

Statistically, vaginal births are safer, and have fewer complications, fewer risks and long term sequelae.

Is that taking into account how many end up in EMCS or forceps and other complications? Because many women wish to opt for a planned caesarean when they see the rates of forceps and emergency c-sections at their hospitals. With ‘choosing’ a vaginal birth you don’t really know what you’re actually going to get and I think women should have more awareness of their own individual risk factors, eg induced labour for first-time mums at my local trust ends up in an EMCS 40% of the time- those odds would be too high for many to consider and they’d prefer a planned section.

@mumsyandtiredzz

Statistically, vaginal births are safer, and have fewer complications, fewer risks and long term sequelae.

Is that taking into account how many end up in EMCS or forceps and other complications? Because many women wish to opt for a planned caesarean when they see the rates of forceps and emergency c-sections at their hospitals. With ‘choosing’ a vaginal birth you don’t really know what you’re actually going to get and I think women should have more awareness of their own individual risk factors, eg induced labour for first-time mums at my local trust ends up in an EMCS 40% of the time- those odds would be too high for many to consider and they’d prefer a planned section.

I'm surprised that the EMCS stats aren't added into the vaginal birth complications. Because that's what a lot of them are.

I had a baby in this trust earlier in this year. I have quite complex health issues and wanted a c section, there was a definite push towards vaginal birth and they didn’t really accept that for me that that had risks too. They were very much ‘you’ll be fine.’ However I know my own body and my previous ‘Natural’ birth left me unwell for years so I stood my ground for a c section, which I got. Reading about the report makes me think I am lucky I am a strong advocate for myself. I did however say to the consultant ‘sorry, I know I’m going against your suggestion’ and I felt guilty I’d made a choice against their recommendation. However I KNEW it was the right choice for me. It shows the sway they can have though as I did almost change my mind as they definitely made me feel like I didn’t really need one and that a vaginal birth would be fine, even though they knew the history with my first child and years of problems post partum.

I've never experienced a stigma around CS & the negative emotions I had after mine were very much because I thought it was meant to be the easy option.
A big issue for me is that childbirth can be really scary, women feel incredibly vulnerable & we are so used to control in our lives that it's very hard to be in this out of control situation. I don't think in most cases those feelings are acknowledged or listened too. You are expected to get on with it & not complain about it.

Yes op I hope so.

It's been well known for a while that there is a section of midwifery that believes stimulating good hormones can make any potentially hard labour easy.. And that if it went wrong it was due to the mother..

It's very wrong and it needs to stop.

I was sexually abused as a child and requested a section. I lied to a few people eg. PIL and my aunt and uncle and told them I had placenta previa. Without even asking why my aunt sniggered and said 'too posh to push are we' when I said I was having a section.

I don't really like it being called a maternal request. Stating that when I was asked what I had by medics and it being on notes including theatre notes made me feel like I was taking the easy option. I think my reasons for a section were very valid. It wasn't just because I wanted one. It was my fear of not bonding with my baby if I had a vaginal or complex birth, the risk to my MH of birth trauma etc. It's probably me being over sensitive, but there you go.

I had an EMCS after induction with my first, and I did feel like a failure - I felt like my body had failed to do what it was supposed to do, and I couldn't help but compare myself to all the women around me at the time who managed to give birth 'naturally'. Thing is, my DP managed to make me realise that, had I not had that section, I could have died or my DD could have died, or both. It was necessary and, ultimately, a fantastic thing. So I made my peace with it.

I had an ELCS with my second child (mainly because I had zero belief that my body would do what it was supposed to do again. I 100% knew that it would end the same way!) and it was a wonderful experience.

Birth, ultimately, is a pragmatic thing. It's a means to an end. The 'journey' is what it is, whatever that may be... Despite what we're lead to believe.

I actually started my own similar thread a few years ago (I think it was just before I had my ELCS) , and had some interesting responses... I'll see if I can find it and post it.

I gave birth vaginally twelve weeks ago and no one ever told me I could choose a c section and I was not told any of the risks of natural birth. Had I been properly informed I would have 100% had a c section. I don’t want to go into it too much because it’s still quite raw but I had an episotomy and my vagina is totally different to how it was before. I’m not in any pain or anything like that, but I had no idea how it would feel to look at my most intimate body part and feel alienated from it. I don’t want to put anyone off because plenty of women have natural births and love the experience. But I have quite a lot of anger about the lack of care and information I was given (being pregnant during Covid restrictions didn’t help). So you get your c section with your head held high. I certainly will be if/when I have another.