To end the stigma of giving birth via C-Sections? Any personal experience of this?

[christmastreesparklex]

Hi all

Discussion: Birth Choice, C-Section and recent Shrewsbury Scandal

I have come across an article, that resonates with me, not only on a personal level but also knowing several of my friends and family members have suffered with.

graziadaily.co.uk/life/real-life/c-section-elective-nhs/

I apologise if there has already been similar discussions, please link me if there has been!

On a personal level, I do not yet have DC. I have been diagnosed with health anxiety and general anxiety disorder and due to the nature of anxiety, I have spent many years leading up to TTC worrying about childbirth, even researching leads me to sweaty hands/ feeling sick.. fantastic! One of my main concerns is how unpredictable childbirth can be and whilst I have not yet come to a conclusion on whether I would like to request a ELCS (I understand that this is absolutely not an easy option without (additional) risks) I feel that this choice is in a way taken away from me and I am fully aware of the difficulties other women have had requesting one without a 'fight'. This only heightens my anxiety further.

My own mother nearly died giving birth and her second birth, with me, was much smoother with an ELCS. She suffered years of PTSD with the first birth and has always said to me to consider ELCS, I admit my mother is not a midwife or a doctor so I do take it with a pinch of salt that this advice has come from her experiences.

Having this discussion with other friends/family members, who have faced similar knock backs, a friend of mine was was recently listed all the health risks of a CS by her consultant but not a natural birth. She felt made to feel guilty and almost bullied to request an ELCS, she decided to take their professional opinion and try naturally, her birth ended up being an emergency c-section, due to shoulder dystocia and she bitterly regrets not going with her gut instinct and being swayed to have a natural birth.

Why is there such a stigma with C-Sections? Are they really more riskier to your health than the risks associated with vag births?

Has anyone else faced similar? If so, what are your experiences? To those who are pregnant do you feel pressured to have a natural birth?

Do you think the Shrewsbury scandal will lead to positive changes in this respect?

FYI: I am not a journalist and I do not give my permission to publish this post on any websites, including daily mail.

That consultant was a dickhead Haworthua

I believe all women should be offered a caesarean on request.

I had an elective caesarean for my 3rd birth, the only stigma I felt afterwards was that it felt as though everyone else found it better their traumatic births...whereas mine was awful, worse than the previous births and it left me with PTSD, as welĺ as physical issues. The 'feeling of being control' or 'an elcs being predictable' is also anathema to me - I really struggled with the complete lack of control and not understanding what was happening.

I think the whole area of childbirth needs to be blown apart and rebuilt - the position women are put in, whichever birth route they go down, is appalling.

I had delivered vaginally with my first and planned section for my second. Both quite different experiences but positives and negatives for both. I never felt any stigma for having a section but a friend visiting shortly after did say that she didn’t think a section was ‘giving birth’. I recall the reaction of her own husband, my DH and myself was enough to put her right!

I've had an EMCS and an ELCS and have never felt any stigma. Both were great experiences, even the ELCS which had some complications.

I do think there's too much pressure around natural birth. I had a baby this year and my birth month group on FB was all talk about hypnobirthing, natural birth, no painkillers etc beforehand, and now the topic of trauma, unexpected instrumental deliveries, inductions, sections etc comes up often. I do think women would be better served by a more matter of fact conversation antenatally.

C sections are nearly always discouraged by MW until of course your labour goes tits up and you have an EMCS and then it was the best thing ever because they have "saved" your baby. Then you are criticised for failure to progress which led to your EMCS and no one mentions the lazy MW who didn't acknowledge your pain or your insistence that you were in labour until another HCP walks in and pushes the big red button and all hell breaks loose. So if you request a section or you end up with an emergency one - you will be at fault. If however, you pay privately, no one says no, the same NHS consultant will perform the procedure and be quite happy to take your cash.

It wasn’t just ELCS looking at the report, they were also obsessed with using forceps in emergency situations even where an emergency c-section should have been an obvious and safer choice. Many women experiencing fetal distress in labour were given oxytocin to get them fully dilated even when it was dangerous to the baby. Many women had brutal forceps deliveries that damaged them and caused devastating injury to their baby’s skulls. All just to avoid a cesarean.

It seems to there was just an obsession to make sure the babies were birthed vaginally at any cost. Operative vaginal theatre births that were riskier to mums and babies were favoured over doing a c-section.

I had 2 sections with both my kids. They were both breech.

I feel no guilt whatsoever - parenting is hard enough without more self flagellation!

Too push to push? A ceasearan is equivalent to a hysterectomy in terms of surgery and recovery time.

My first was breach. They offered an ECV which we declined and they booked us in fine. My first we opted for section due to not wanting a VBAC and there was no discussion. The consultant gave us the stats, we asked a few questions and c section was agreed. I went into labour before our planned date and they didn't try to persuade me to have a vaginal birth. I feel lucky our choices were not judged.

I don't think there is any stigma. I've had 2 vaginal births and 2 c sections. Yes my babies were born safely but my god I wish I'd known after the complications afterwards.

What no one tells you about c sections is the internal scarring - I've got adhesions around my uterus, bladder and bowel that have given me years of misery. And several other mums I know have had the same issues - my cousin has had 2 lots of post section surgery to remove adhesions. It's remarkably common, but it's not talked about.

www.healthywomen.org/content/article/surgical-adhesions-gynecologic-surgery

It can vary massively between trusts though, some hospitals won’t even offer an ELCS if a woman has had a previous c-section.

The blunt truth is that CS has a higher rate of babies dying and higher risks through infection etc because it's major surgery.

I'd be horrified if the UK started having really high elective rates. There are always some women who need CS but the general message should be that natural birth is safer.

I speak as someone who has had both CS and vaginal birth. Give me vaginal birth anyway, the squeezing the baby out bit was horrendous but the CS recovery was much worse.

I still don’t see much said about a stigma in the posts above; it just seems to be difficulty getting a c section agreed.

@DemolitionBarbie

The blunt truth is that CS has a higher rate of babies dying and higher risks through infection etc because it's major surgery.

I'd be horrified if the UK started having really high elective rates. There are always some women who need CS but the general message should be that natural birth is safer.

I speak as someone who has had both CS and vaginal birth. Give me vaginal birth anyway, the squeezing the baby out bit was horrendous but the CS recovery was much worse.

Elective cesarean actually has the lowest infant mortality stats of them all. Emergency cesarean have higher death rates, although still objectively low, due to the nature of it being an emergency from the get go.

The blunt truth is that CS has a higher rate of babies dying and higher risks through infection etc because it's major surgery.

I thought elective c-sections were actually safer for babies with a lower rate of them dying?

I would also add though that a c section can be unpredictable as well (just going from the OP). My first was bloody awful, I could feel pain (think there was an issue with my spinal), I can barely remember her coming out as I was so off my face with dugs and I had a 1.8l PPH in recovery and spent the night in HDU. The whole thing was awful from start to finish (no ones fault, just one of those things).

Emergency cesarean have higher death rates, although still objectively low, due to the nature of it being an emergency from the get go.

And a huge number of emergency caesareans start off as attempted vaginal births and wouldn’t happen if an ELCS had taken place instead. That’s why I never understand why women seeking an ELCS are often shown stats that include EMCS. They are seeking something that will AVOID an EMCS yet being shown data that reflects the risk of it.

@mumsyandtiredzz

Emergency cesarean have higher death rates, although still objectively low, due to the nature of it being an emergency from the get go.

And a huge number of emergency caesareans start off as attempted vaginal births and wouldn’t happen if an ELCS had taken place instead. That’s why I never understand why women seeking an ELCS are often shown stats that include EMCS. They are seeking something that will AVOID an EMCS yet being shown data that reflects the risk of it.

Yes exactly. My biggest fear with a vaginally birth was it going tits up and needing a crash section or forceps, with doctors running everywhere, fluid bags, the whole shebang. Given how unpredictable birth is, it made sense to me to book what seemed comparatively, the more serene and predictable option.

As it happened, my next birth was an emergency like I described above due to prematurity, which obviously couldn't be helped. The planned one that I had the first time round was 100x better than the emergency.

I did get the elective section, thanks @ForestNymph

I said I would take all the known risks of a c section vs. all the unknown risks of a natural delivery.

And I’ll tell you what, c section recovery was a breeze compared with having my perineum reconstructed.

I’ve literally just been reading about this and the risks are basically the same overall once you account for the fact that c sections are mostly done in emergencies anyway. Vaginal birth has slightly higher risk of tearing, C sections have slightly higher risk of infection, definitely higher risk of asthma. But overall it’s not like there are way more risks. I think I read that certain uk medical institutions are trying to remove the stigma around ELCS based on this. I’d certainly push for one if you want one.

I had an elective because DD was breech, completely and blissfully unaware of any stigma. I had one consultation with a doctor who wanted to try to turn the baby, I presumed that was for my benefit though, just offered as an option. Everyone I saw after, nurses, sonographer, etc all said don’t do it! get the C section!

I had an EMC - I don't feel a failure. I've only ever heard one friend make a comment assuming a c section is easier. Funnily enough, that friend needed a c section later down the line and didn't find it quite the walk in the park she thought it was! Her comment didn't bother me in the, least though and I was support and, have adnixe when she needed it. I'm not really one of those women that see birth as some kind of spiritual expeirence though, just as a means to an end. I'm happy my daughter arrived safely and that I'm still here - that's all I care about. I've never heard any man voice an opinion, it's usually women branding themselves 'warriors' etc on SM for having natural births.

There is sadly stigma / some sort of judgement surrounding way to give birth imo. I had a water birth and people certainly have their opinions about that e.g.
'Why would u do it without drugs? Are u trying to be a hero?', 'Hippy dippy' etc. I know this thread is obviously about c-sections but my point is it's not just c-sections people have opinions on unfortunately. I think all ways of giving birth are amazing and u should never judge.

'Surrounding every way' that should've said

I didn’t experience any stigma from having a c-section. People have actually been very kind with acknowledging how tough the recovery is.

Concerning to hear of potential future fertility issues though. Are there any checks the doctor can do on you afterwards (say a year PP) to see how the scar tissue is doing, or do you just find out when you’re unable to conceive again?