DD10 - First experience being made to feel 'weird' by a grown man. Help me.

[LadyOfTheFlowers]

In town Sunday. Stopped at a bench to put my backpack down and rearrange it after exiting shop. Had DS14 and DD10 with me.
A random bloke about 30 I would say - didn't take much notice - just stood near bench looking at phone.
I'm sorting my bag, DD is slightly behind me to my right side, very close to me. Said bloke is about 3m away also to the right.
DS is behind the bench so directly opposite me passing stuff to put in backpack.
Sort bag, move on.

When we are walking home, DD says to me she feels weird. I ask what about.
"You know when we at the bench, that guy was stood there.... Well he kept staring at me and he was smiling but not. Like he was half smiling, like a little bit and now I just feel a bit weird"

I told her if she had said to me at the time I would have confronted him. She said he kept on so she shuffled round me to hide.

DS chimed in that he saw him and glared at him and he then looked away.

I was so angry at the time that she felt that way. She is 10 years old.

I don't really know what I want anyone to say, it's just playing on my mind. I'm so saddened this has happened and she is only 10.

How do I prepare her for this type of thing? Do I brief her? It's gross. Things like this happen to me but now I am older I have an excellent "Fuck off and die" stare that works quite well and would have no qualms confronting a guy if I was pissed off enough.

[quote CanICelebrate]@MerchantOfVenom
If they don’t like it, then they can just not do it.

Do what?! Smile in the presence of a girl? Stand in the presence of a girl? I’ve been sexually assaulted and it’s fucking awful but that is NOT what happened in the OP.[/quote]
Make someone feel uncomfortable.

It’s pretty simple. Sorry if you’re struggling to get it. 🤷🏻‍♀️

@MerchantOfVenom but that is SO subjective. Some posters on here would have laid into the man in the OP and for what? I’m all for challenging inappropriate behaviour but when the person could well be completely innocent and there is no evidence to the contrary then that is a completely different scenario

@MerchantOfVenom and please don’t patronise me with emojis. As I said, I’ve been sexually assaulted and I’m not an apologist for perverts, but in this specific scenario the best thing to do would be to move away from the man, but verbally attack him as some have suggested.

Again - who cares?

His feeling could not be of less concern to me.

I’m confused. Why are you expecting me to give a shiny one about some random stranger who’s making me (or my DD) uncomfortable?

@MerchantOfVenom clearly we disagree but I’ve not responded to the OP, just to the PPs who suggested confronting the man.
No need to patronise me for disagreeing. I find this topic triggering from from sides if I’m honest

Why is it assumed he is a pervert? He looked at her and smiled. I sometimes smile at children, for any number of reasons, none of them because I'm a pervert.

A decent man wouldn’t keep staring at a young girl and smiling. And being as OPs daughter felt uncomfortable, no doubt she would have looked uncomfortable too.

I know my partner is no threat to anyone, but he has the self awareness to know that, as a man, other women and children don’t know that he’s one of the good ones. So no, he can’t stare and smile at young children or women.

@MerchantOfVenom then move away and warn dd of potential danger, not treat the man as though he was a pervert.
Ive been a victim and also had a family member falsely accused.
I need to leave this thread now as I’m really quite triggered and anxious - I apologise if I’ve caused offence but I don’t take back what I said. And I do feel for the dd.

The best thing is not just to move away. The best thing is to say something. That’s what do, and it’s what I’m telling my DD to do. Nothing will ever change, otherwise.

Yes, let’s agree to disagree, because I couldn’t disagree with you more.

Sorry @LadyOfTheFlowers for derailing the thread

"No evidence that he was a pervert".

No, none at all except two eye witnesses who said he was creepy.

For the record if anyone here smiles intensely at a child who hides, then keeps smiling regardless, yes, there is huge chance they think you are a creep.

Let's not derail the thread. The OP asked for a way to talk to her DD about keeping her boundaries / how to handle this situation going forward.

I would frame it within teaching her to trust her feelings and her value. She is not bothering anyone in asking for help, whether is not understanding a math problem, telling a school mate not to pinch her crayons or asking for help when feeling uncomfortable.

I tell my DDs that the world is overwhelmingly filled with good and helpful people, but there is the odd bad person so it is okay to be alert.

Men being wrongly accused happens far, far less than women being made to feel uncomfortable.

My priority is, for example, my DD (same age as the OP’s DD) and her friends, who are now staring down the barrel of this sort of relentless behaviour, and will have to deal with it for years, until they become middle aged and invisible.

I don’t care about men who don’t have the social skills or wherewithal not to make women feel uncomfortable.

Unless DD was already alerted generally to pervvy behaviour, she would not have felt uncomfortable from an innocent smile from the man. The fact that she did means either he was being pervvy or that she was over-alert to pervvy behaviour because of something she had already seen or heard about. The best thing we can do is teach our children to trust their own instincts, but not be closed off to others as in the old 'stranger danger' thing.

@MerchantOfVenom

The best thing is not just to move away. The best thing is to say something. That’s what do, and it’s what I’m telling my DD to do. Nothing will ever change, otherwise.

Yes, let’s agree to disagree, because I couldn’t disagree with you more.

Be careful with that.

I 'said something' as a young teenager at the wrong moment, to the wrong people, and got the shit kicked out of me by three grown men.

Teach your daughters whatever you think is right for them, but be wary of making blanket statements about what 'the best thing' is for everyone.

I will not hold the little girls in my life responsible for changing society at their own physical risk.

Don't give her the Gift of Fear, at least without vetting it first. IMO it's too graphic for a ten year old.

But do read it yourself. Since I've absorbed that message, I'm so much more comfortable removing myself from situations. Sure, walking away risks mild rudeness - sometimes it might be social awkwardness or cultural difference. But no woman should have to feel uncomfortable and potentially put herself in danger just to be polite.

I’ve had too much abuse and hassle from strange men over the years to give one shiny shit if I hurt a mans feelings. He is either a perve or so thick that he is coming across as a perve and frightening women and children and needs to be told as much.

Of course the calling out should only be done if lots of other adults around and child confident enough. Absolute Priority is each girl preserves her own safety - the feelings of these men should not even be on the list of anyone’s concerns 🙄

@MsTSwift

This shit thrives on shame and secrecy. Put the spotlight on them. Hopefully another man will take it upon himself to punch the perve in the face as happened to a friend of a friend on a tube. Everyone else cheered.

But sometimes, eg a sleepover, the child in question can't call it out, they feel vulnerable as they are a child on their own in the house of the person staring, ie, they are not in control. If they call it out in these situations, they have no idea what the starer will do, and as it's usually an adult male, I'm not surprised.

A safe word/phrase is a great idea. The child can get out of the situation without triggering a poor response in the starer.

Children need to be safe, then we can call it out.

Well, I probably wouldn’t tell her to say something, as a lone girl or woman, to three men.

Clearly there’s some nuance that needs to be applied to any given situation (which I sort of thought went without saying - apparently not, so apologies).

Couldn’t agree with you more @MsTSwift.

And I really like the idea of a safe word - ideal for a tween / young teen with an adult present. Will definitely use this with my DD.

Sorry am ranting just enraged even remembering our metro incident.

Had the sleepover thing not perve related but dd 1 found herself part of plan to creep out with parents vodka so rang me early evening with “stomach ache” so she could be collected with minimal impact on her social standing!

@MerchantOfVenom

Well, I probably wouldn’t tell her to say something, as a lone girl or woman, to three men.

Clearly there’s some nuance that needs to be applied to any given situation (which I sort of thought went without saying - apparently not, so apologies).

Couldn’t agree with you more @MsTSwift.

And that nuance is supposed to be read by a 10 year old?

I wasn't alone though, incidentally. I was in a group of 8, and there were five other adults who watched it happen through the chip shop window.

Read that nuance.

Sorry, that came out spikier than I meant.

Millions of years of evolution means that human beings are extremely good at reading facial expressions, however miniscule or brief. Your DD likely won't have the vocabulary or understanding yet to articulate how the man made her feel. But, she will definitely have known that there was something very wrong about this man.

Men like this trade on others polite reluctance to cause a scene or to make an objection. They know that most people will try to avoid any awkwardness if at all possible.

I've always told my kids to listen to their inner alarm bell, and if we're there, to tell us. If we're not, then get to us or another known safe adult, and tell them. I've told them, don't worry about offending someone, get yourself safe, and if there's any apologising to be done, I'll be doing it, I'd rather they were safe, and I can be sorry.

So in this instance, I'd be telling her that it's great that she listened to her instincts, and did what she felt she could to keep herself safe, but next time, let me know. All you have to do, if need be, is tug on my arm, and let me know you want to whisper something to me. And then I'll deal with the situation as necessary.

Look, my point is...

Letchy, creepy men make me roll my eyes. I’ve encountered more than I care to remember.

But what makes me actually angry, is grown women defending them, with all this, ‘oh, but their feelings...!’

For heaven’s sake.

Yes, I think these men should be called out.

Clearly there might be times when it’s wise not to.

No, I I can’t foresee all of those situations.

But I will continue to tell my DD not to ignore any feelings of discomfort, and while she’s still very young, then the idea of a safe word is really helpful.