DD10 - First experience being made to feel 'weird' by a grown man. Help me.

[LadyOfTheFlowers]

In town Sunday. Stopped at a bench to put my backpack down and rearrange it after exiting shop. Had DS14 and DD10 with me.
A random bloke about 30 I would say - didn't take much notice - just stood near bench looking at phone.
I'm sorting my bag, DD is slightly behind me to my right side, very close to me. Said bloke is about 3m away also to the right.
DS is behind the bench so directly opposite me passing stuff to put in backpack.
Sort bag, move on.

When we are walking home, DD says to me she feels weird. I ask what about.
"You know when we at the bench, that guy was stood there.... Well he kept staring at me and he was smiling but not. Like he was half smiling, like a little bit and now I just feel a bit weird"

I told her if she had said to me at the time I would have confronted him. She said he kept on so she shuffled round me to hide.

DS chimed in that he saw him and glared at him and he then looked away.

I was so angry at the time that she felt that way. She is 10 years old.

I don't really know what I want anyone to say, it's just playing on my mind. I'm so saddened this has happened and she is only 10.

How do I prepare her for this type of thing? Do I brief her? It's gross. Things like this happen to me but now I am older I have an excellent "Fuck off and die" stare that works quite well and would have no qualms confronting a guy if I was pissed off enough.

Men smile at me in a friendly way and I smile back. Men also leer at me. I don't smile back.

If my child says she felt uncomfortable I'm assuming he was leering - leering isn't a word she's come across yet. So she said half smile, which to me, sounds like her saying leering, especially as it had the desired effect - she physically moved herself out of his vision and felt uncomfortable.

Oh stop with the “so we can’t smile at children” shit. 🙄 it’s not the same and you know it.

We had this on Paris metro. Our 2 girls sat separately to us as busy train. When we got off dd2 aged 11 was crying as “a man had stared at her between her legs”. 🙁 she’s not a dramatic child and our 14 year old who was sitting next to her confirmed it.

Sorry my comment not to you op but previous posters

You don’t have to terrify her. Just tell her that it is valid to feel uncomfortable around some people, and if she does feel spooked by someone, the best thing to do is remove herself and go somewhere safe where there are plenty of people around just in case she needs help. No need to go into what the worst case scenarios might be.

It doesn't matter if the guy was being creepy or not!
The child (in fact 2 children) felt uncomfortable and that is all that needs to be respected.
Yes, teach her to get away if possible, if not to tell someone else she feels uncomfortable. If 'in the moment' to call him out, if possible.

I am completely tone deaf and incredibly awkward when I interact with strangers. I’m going to be more thoughtful about this in the future.

If not already, maybe now is a good time to start talking to your daughter about feminism too? It's empowering.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/amp/entry/how-to-teach-your-sons-and-daughters-about-feminism_uk_5a9d33c2e4b0a0ba4ad5e7a4/

Also the safety chats - stranger danger, understanding consent, what grooming is. NSPCC have good resources that teach it at an age appropriate level

Do you stare at young girls crotches for minutes at a time? Do you stand and smirk at children and when they display that they feel abit awkward do you still stand and stare? I am sure you don’t.

I wonder if the difference of opinion on here is split between those who experienced smiles like this as a child, and those who (luckily) only experienced the happy, friendly kinds of smiles.

There are smiles and there are smiles and I KNEW, even at that kind of age, when smiles were not the same as they usually are.

The dark smiles are the kind that vanish quickly when someone else notices them. In this case, the OP's DS noticed and that ended this "smile", in many cases it's another adult.

The advice to trust your instinct, to get somewhere safe, to stay close to a safe adult, to speak up, is good advice. Sadly, it means she will have to face this at 10 years old - but that was about the age I remember this kind of behaviour starting. It's sad and so bloody unfair, but she needs to know she can trust her instinct on this.

@LadyOfTheFlowers this really, really sucks.

I remember this kind of behaviour starting when I was about 11 –I used to walk along a main road to go and buy sweets at the village shop and men in vans would beep their horns at me and shout things out of the window.

I remember feeling a very strange mix of gut-level fear and very heady power that was too much for my mind to make sense of at that age, and I believe it had a significant impact on my relationships with men as a teenager and adult.

Of course you don't want to scare her, and PPs have given great advice on teaching her to trust her physical reactions to things and speak up.

I might also consider having a family codeword for situations when anyone feels uncomfortable and needs to let others know without worrying about 'outing' their feelings in front of perpetrators.

My girlfriends and I set up this system when we were at uni – like a safeword among the group – and it got us out of a number of situations where it might not have felt easy to flag our discomfort in a subtle way.

I second buying your daughter “the gift of fear” OP. Ignore the people saying “what you can’t smile at children now?”- your daughter should be taught to trust her gut instincts about people. It’s better to be alive and “rude” than dead and polite.

I would not be sure about The Gift of Fear - which is a great book for adults but I would be worried that the seriousness of some of the examples are too much for a 10 year old to handle. I'm thinking specifically about one of the opening stories of a women being held capitve in her flat and raped.

I am not an expert of what 10 years old can handle, though - so may be off mark.

My own daughter has told me that two men stared at her for ages when we were in a restaurant and she didn’t like it...she is 6. She told me as soon as they left. I spoke to her and hope that if it happens again she would tell me at the time.

It's a terrible experience for little girls (and it is girls) to be leered at by men (and it IS men). Your poor daughter.
I hate that my DD will be exposed to this one day and feel worried how I'll protect her. I'll start with a code word, great idea.

My dd (8 nearing 9) sometimes gets a little spooked by some men walking near/past us. When it first happened we had a little chat and whilst I assured her that most people were good, she should always trust her gut.

It happens once or twice a year, and I can tell immediately from the way she looks that she has had it happen. Again, I reiterate that she should trust her gut.

Overreaction much ??

@lollipoprainbow

Overreaction much ??

No.

This is the time to tell her to tune in to that weird feeling and turn the volume up. It will keep her safe. I’m always telling DD to listen to her instincts - ignore the posters telling you effectively to ignore her instincts. They are the biggest defence we have.

And yes - it happens from this age onwards. First time a dodgy man leered at my daughter she was 11 and in school uniform, anorak and a woolly hat. She was on her own and was beside herself with fear. She didn’t know what it was but she knew she didn’t like it. That’s where your DD is. Now DD is 14 and used to it - it’s a regular occurrence. But at least she knows her instincts are working.

Many of us growing up and as adults have learned to trust our instincts. Some, like me, look back and wish we had the confidence when we were younger to believe our instincts rather than keep quiet because of conditioning to be polite or to not cause a scene.
Yes it could have a perfectly innocent smile, however your DD felt uncomfortable, she has a right to not be made uncomfortable by unwanted attention from a stranger. If innocent he should have known better, a glancing smile is one thing but to continue whilst obviously making someone uncomfortable is not acceptable.

Isn't she a great girl for being able to articulate that she felt uncomfortable.

Great opportunity to talk about her listening to her gut and inner voice.

Every child should read "The gift of fear".
Superb book.

I also agree with with the loudly calling out when someone is inappropriate.

Twice in my 20's I did this, and it was show stopper😱🤣and extremely effective.....

Our poor girls - daughters, sisters, nieces, whoever - having this burden as they grow up. Makes me furious.

Me too. Dd2 is 12 5 ft 6 and stunning. She already gets shouted or beeped at by men in vehicles.

@ImaSababa

Our poor girls - daughters, sisters, nieces, whoever - having this burden as they grow up. Makes me furious.

Same. I was probably about 11-12 when I first became aware of men doing this kind of crap. Remember commenting to a friend that we needed badges saying "My face is up here" because of a bus driver on the school route - we were clearly in school uniform, and given it was our first year at secondary school, also clearly first years in too large blazers. It's grim.

He may have thought she was staring at him and it made him feel uncomfortable so he didn't know whether to smile or what to do. It is very uncomfortable if someone keeps looking at you and it's hard to not feel paranoid.

Like ladybee says, safe words/phrases are a great idea. I’ve heard of many people getting their kids to use them so that they can get out of uncomfortable situations like parties or sleepovers where they don’t feel safe or comfortable. A simple innocuous phrase like “How’s grandpa?” can be a cue to come and pick them up without them losing face.