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Why do americans fear anything that's slightly left wing, let alone socialist ?

270 replies

Schonerlebnis · 07/11/2020 06:59

Admit it's a bit of a blanket statement but there seems to be this widespread fear of any kind of left wing policy. I'm on a non political facebook group (cooking related so as ordinary as you can get) which has many US members and was surprised by how many called obama care socialist Confused
Even the Democrats are accused of being left leaning (correct me if I'm wrong but that's not even remotely accurate !) and I'm not sure that they even have unions anymore ? On a recent US election thread someone mentioned that people feared that changes to the benefits system to support the vulnerable would lead to a rise in taxes and so make them poorer..... Can any one explain why a country that claims to look after the persecuted and vulnerable has such odd views ?

OP posts:
whenwillthemadnessend · 07/11/2020 08:30

We allowed uni fees for our young people. A massive mistake!

Why did we not kick up more fuss about that.

My prediction is now COVID has hit unis hard some will go under with out govt support and many kids will not choose uni quite so quickly after the way they have been treated.

You reap what you sow.

GalesThisMorning · 07/11/2020 08:33

I had a period of being a single mother on a low income in the UK, and then I lost my job. I found a minimum wage job working in a chip shop because that was what I knew to do - get any job you can so your kids can eat.

A lot of my friends found it amusing because I didn't have to do it. I would have been no worse off claiming benefits. Friends, and even the Job Centre advisor, told me I should take time to think about what I really wanted to do. That would never happen in the US and it would be seen as proof of the destructive nature of socialism on the individual. Tbh I'm not sure that would still happen in Britain today, times are changing. This was 10 years ago.

Sorry, I may be rambling, there was a point in my head when I started typing lol! It's an interesting thread that got me thinking

ivykaty44 · 07/11/2020 08:40

My point is that if you are able bodied you are expected to work full time.

Universal credit Expects claimants to be working full time unless children under certain age

JSA for many is paid from National insurance payments - so an insurance policy

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Thewiseoneincognito · 07/11/2020 08:40

Watch the start of the disintegration of American society over the coming weeks. Unless a miracle happens, regardless of who takes office there will be trouble. That nation is divided like oil and water and it would seem there’s no going back now. Frightening doesn’t come close.

PersonaNonGarter · 07/11/2020 08:42

@DGRossetti

Ignorance
The reverse - very real lived experience of left wing governments.
FedUpAtHomeTroels · 07/11/2020 08:44

@ivykaty44

I find many people (at least on mumsnet) extremely vulnerable, prone to depression, and making life choices that create even more vulnerability.

You’ll have people that are the same in the states, so what happens to them?

From my experience living there most of my life, they sink or swim. I had a friend with depression and panic attacks, she used her medication sparingly, and put on a brave face and made it through each day. Years later she is doing much better. But there is no safety net to let you dwell on any problems you have. Even when sick, you drag you butt out of bed and get to work. Dh was in a union, (teamsters) going strong he'll be getting a pension from them when he retires.
IsaInTheLift · 07/11/2020 08:46

@GalesThisMorning

I had a period of being a single mother on a low income in the UK, and then I lost my job. I found a minimum wage job working in a chip shop because that was what I knew to do - get any job you can so your kids can eat.

A lot of my friends found it amusing because I didn't have to do it. I would have been no worse off claiming benefits. Friends, and even the Job Centre advisor, told me I should take time to think about what I really wanted to do. That would never happen in the US and it would be seen as proof of the destructive nature of socialism on the individual. Tbh I'm not sure that would still happen in Britain today, times are changing. This was 10 years ago.

Sorry, I may be rambling, there was a point in my head when I started typing lol! It's an interesting thread that got me thinking

I think things are different now. There is a much greater expectation to work alongside claiming benefits (and you'll be on the absolute breadline either way). In the early 00s benefits were comparatively more "generous".
Bagadverts · 07/11/2020 08:48

I agree generally that there is a lot less provision in terms of benefits and employment law rights.

GalesThisMorning · 07/11/2020 08:49

I agree. I wonder if Britain will become more like America before America become more like Britain

Bagadverts · 07/11/2020 08:54

Posted early - example, there is no statutory paid maternity leave at a National (federal) level - up to 12 weeks unpaid, though there are now additional protections under Obamacare. Many of the states have extra rights though - mostly Democrat leaning states.

BecomeStronger · 07/11/2020 08:55

But there is no safety net to let you dwell on any problems you have. Even when sick, you drag you butt out of bed and get to work.

I do sometime wonder if our long sickness benefits (occupational and otherwise) are counter productive. Having nothing to do and too much time to think is surely rarely good for mental health?

happinessischocolate · 07/11/2020 08:58

@GalesThisMorning

I had a period of being a single mother on a low income in the UK, and then I lost my job. I found a minimum wage job working in a chip shop because that was what I knew to do - get any job you can so your kids can eat.

A lot of my friends found it amusing because I didn't have to do it. I would have been no worse off claiming benefits. Friends, and even the Job Centre advisor, told me I should take time to think about what I really wanted to do. That would never happen in the US and it would be seen as proof of the destructive nature of socialism on the individual. Tbh I'm not sure that would still happen in Britain today, times are changing. This was 10 years ago.

Sorry, I may be rambling, there was a point in my head when I started typing lol! It's an interesting thread that got me thinking

Who looked after your kids whilst you were working? Surely a babysitter would cost more than the minimum wage that you earning. If you were only working in the chippy during school hours then your weren't exactly doing many hours.

I'm not sure many people could pay rent let alone anything else like food just on a minimum wage from a chippy job without benefits to top their wages up.

chachachargrilled · 07/11/2020 09:01

@joystir59 it could be argued though, other than for emergency care, the U.K. already has far inferior healthcare provision than most of the developed world.
The poor service of the nhs for many many people and lack of resources is being exposed under COVID more and more.

TwentyViginti · 07/11/2020 09:02

@Doyouknowwhat

Ivykaty44, I'm pretty sure free school meals were around when i was a kid in the 1970s
Free school meals were available in the 1960s when I was at school.
RomeoLikedCapuletGirls · 07/11/2020 09:03

Personally I think it’s to do with their immigrant history. There’s this romantic ideal that the original Americans set off on their own, independently carving out their livelihoods and fighting the interference of high taxes of the British monarchy.

Now this fierce independence and fear of interference is manipulated by the capitalist money-holders to prevent the masses from demanding more rights.

It’s all bullshit though because they can be socialist when they want to be. Look at the GI bill or the New Deal. Look at the way he banks accepted interference to save them. Even in the beginning the lives of the white settlers were made easier by the American government clearing the lands of “Indians” and reneging on contracts.

HollowTalk · 07/11/2020 09:12

Local authorities had to provide free school meals since 1944. It's not a new thing!

Bouledeneige · 07/11/2020 09:23

I agree with what lots of posters have said here - individualism drawn from the pioneer spirit, a belief in the American dream that anyone can make it (this is not true life chances are very dependent on your birth) so those that are at the bottom of the pile aren't doing enough to help themselves. A real aversion to paying taxes and fear of government interference in their lives - the idea of the Land of the Free. Without the same safety net there is a real incentive for people to work hard to hold onto their jobs.

Plus in election terms there are minority communities in certain areas for Cuba, Venezuela and other countries who have fled to america from communist or left wing regimes. They know the reality.

Chapterx · 07/11/2020 09:25

@GalesThisMorning under the US system you’d be living in a trailer with no rights to annual leave, sick pay if you or your children were ill, no minimum wage, no access to health care (how would you have paid for their births?). Barely any employment rights and the only food and cosmetics you could afford would be cheap so could be packed with any old rubbish.
I prefer living in a society that supports people in need and would help single mums like yourself move into stable better paid careers.

Chapterx · 07/11/2020 09:32

@Bouledeneige as the Nordic and British aren’t fleeing the reality of their socialist states for the US. I think it’s fair to conclude that Cuba and Venezuela have problems that aren’t caused by socialism. Mainly that the US has spent decades trying to destabilise them whilst also fuelling the drugs trade.

Valkadin · 07/11/2020 09:37

Whenwillthemadnessend just a reminder to everyone that Tony Blair introduced tuition fees.

GalesThisMorning · 07/11/2020 09:41

@Chapterx chillax, as my people say. I'm not attacking your way of life. I've lived happily enough in the UK for 18 years now, it is my home and I like it well enough here. I was simply commenting on the different mentalities. The US mentality does not readily accept the idea of government assistance.

The truth of it is that I am now highly qualified in a specialist field. In the US I would be paid several times more for what I do than I am here. But I couldn't work part time as I do now, I wouldn't have as relaxed a lifestyle, lockdown would have been unbearable, my son's medical issues would keep me up at night, and my husband would need to work 60 hours a week instead of the civilised 37.5 that he does.

I am not opposed to socialism

GalesThisMorning · 07/11/2020 09:45

Also in my home state the minimum wage is $15 an hour!!!

Ifailed · 07/11/2020 09:46

When people write about The American Dream, I assume they are just referring to the white folk?

VintageDressmaker · 07/11/2020 09:47

They think socialism = communism

Bouledeneige · 07/11/2020 09:51

Chapterz people aren't fleeing the Nordic and British states as they're not socialist states. We live in a market economy and parliamentary democracy with a nominal royal head of state. It is very different to a socialist state - the state only controls the markets at the margins (ethics, taxes, health and safety, anti trust), we have an independent judiciary, independent media, a formal role for the recognised opposition and all members of the government are elected. European countries happened to have historically accepted paying a higher level of taxes in return for a safety net of services for all - most notably in health, maternity, unemployment benefits and income support. And we have accepted gun control in return for lower levels of homicide. From a European perspective these are all seen as a good social contract to a greater or lesser extent. Within each there are debates about big or small state, levels of taxes and safety v. civil liberties.

Cuba placed universal rights to work, health and housing above civil liberties - freedom of speech, to contested elections and meritocratic public appointments - as many socialist states do.

And Venezuela is its own special political and social disaster. To quote the BBC on Venezuela:
'Opposition lawmakers have been barred from standing for office, some have been arrested and others have gone into exile. The United Nations has accused the government of using a strategy of instilling fear in its population to retain power.

The South American country has been caught in a downward spiral for years with growing political discontent further fuelled by skyrocketing hyperinflation, power cuts and shortages of food and medicine.
Close to five million Venezuelans have left the country in recent years.'

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