Labour friend awful about tories

[tabicae]

NC as probably outing. I have a very close friend who is there for me though everything really and I am for them. We have always avoided politics and have had very different backgrounds. Given what’s been going on recently I’m politics, it’s been hard to avoid the topic.

Whilst I personally have no massive political leaning and can see both sides without coming down massively on either one, she knows that I was brought up in a Tory household and although I have never disclosed who I would vote for, she knows I am on the fence about things and like some Tory polices and some labour. A lot of my childhood was based around things she seems to strongly dislike and is open about...private schools, inheritance, private health, second homes etc.

Anyway..getting to the point. She has become VERY vocal about these things. Slagging off private education and people who went to them (always careful to say ‘there are exceptions’). Being critical of second homes yet happily staying in my parents second homes free of charge for a holiday. And it goes on like that.

She has recently become quite vulgar about tories, calling them and Boris c*nts, etc. I know I feel defensive about this as my dad is a very generous, caring man and he voted for Boris. It feels quite personal.

I’ve noticed that it seems ok on social media and in conversation to being vulgar about tories/anyone who aligns themselves with any Tory policies, yet it is unacceptable to ever do the same if you are a Tory talking about a labour supporter. In fact I am yet to hear a Tory speak so awfully about someone who votes for another party. I feel like her comments are getting in between our friendship and whilst I always knew we differed on this topic it has never ever been an issue between us.

I’m not sure what to say really...maybe she’s always had this view of me and my family and is only now vocalising it? Would you address it?

Your dad's neighbor sounds potentially morally corrupt. I don't think anyone has ever said there are no morally corrupt people who vote labour though. Does that example make it OK to vote in a way which just protects yourself and not others? I'm a bit confused about your point there.

Can I just add that boris made it quite clear his views on certain people, way before he was prime minister. So while obviously the free school meal scandal (just to name one) was done after he was elected, people knew what kind of person they were voting for, the views he held, his actions. So no, they cant be nice people to want that in power.

I'm not even a die hard labour voter, but I'm not sure why people bullshit around the subject of tories. They haven't got a great track record with how they treat certain members of society, it's not something you could just skip over because the rest of their ideas ain't all that bad.

@tabicae

Wanting to protect your finances and family and give your family the best in life doesn’t mean you are automatically a selfish person. We are going round in circles but what I will say is my parents live next door to a couple who are labour through and through. They campaign, they virtue signal. They live in a 3million pound house, have 4 brand new cars on the drive and throw parties regularly, pissing money down the drain on a weekly basis, claim disability allowance and avoid tax as much as possible, telling my dad new tips on a regular basis. They recently got in trouble for insurance fraud. My dad in comparison, has all the material things they have, yet spends his evenings doing online tutoring for free, for students at all schools, state and private, and at the weekend works driving delivering food to vulnerable families who cannot go out during the pandemic.

I’d do more research on your fellow labour voters, as in day to day lifestyle research. before making your bold assumptions. Of course, these two examples could be the only ones of Tory/labour. But probably not.

Again, spare room tax? Brexit? Windrush? Still no answer?

@tabicae

I can appreciate that someone may feel cross about politics. I feel cross about the comments made on this thread.

But again, no need for abusive language, is there? This is what I can’t comprehend. Be civil, practise what you preach, be generous and caring even if you are angry about politics. It’s crass, vulgar and I can promise you, will not entice people to vote for your favoured party. Have an intelligent discussion instead.

I agree about this. Tory-cunt is a bit much. The 'caring' thing again though. It's really interesting for me to try and make sense of how you can see looking after other being so important in a place like this but so unimportant when you're choosing who to vote for. I'm genuinely a bit baffled there.

Thing is, it's a bit cheeky for people with privilege telling others to be nice to them. You've got all the money and power; no one ever said that liking you was part of the deal too.

pumper I’m not sure what answer you want? The bedroom tax came into stop people living in homes, funded by the state, that were too big for them and needed by others.

More people voted for Brexit than Bremain. Is it not time to move on from that? I would rather not have had Brexit, it’s happened, I won’t be calling the other 50 percent of the country cunts because of it.

You seem to be asking me specifically about Tory policies, and asking me to defend them, when I didn’t even vote Tory, as I said many posts ago? I get what your points are, I hear you and in the main I am with you. What I’m NOT with you on is calling members of any party, and their families, and the PM for that matter, a cunt or other abusive language. Hopefully that clears things up for you.

ohhcarolina I couldn’t care less if you like my family or if you like Boris or Jenny down the road who votes Tory. I care that your can’t hold a dignified discussion and instead spout abuse at people you don’t know.

@tabicae

I can appreciate that someone may feel cross about politics. I feel cross about the comments made on this thread.

But again, no need for abusive language, is there? This is what I can’t comprehend. Be civil, practise what you preach, be generous and caring even if you are angry about politics. It’s crass, vulgar and I can promise you, will not entice people to vote for your favoured party. Have an intelligent discussion instead.

As a Labour voter, I can only praise you for this pithy summary OP. Too bloody right!

And please defriend your "friend". She just sounds downright nasty.

@tabicae

pumper I’m not sure what answer you want? The bedroom tax came into stop people living in homes, funded by the state, that were too big for them and needed by others.

More people voted for Brexit than Bremain. Is it not time to move on from that? I would rather not have had Brexit, it’s happened, I won’t be calling the other 50 percent of the country cunts because of it.

You seem to be asking me specifically about Tory policies, and asking me to defend them, when I didn’t even vote Tory, as I said many posts ago? I get what your points are, I hear you and in the main I am with you. What I’m NOT with you on is calling members of any party, and their families, and the PM for that matter, a cunt or other abusive language. Hopefully that clears things up for you.

It doesn’t, no. You’re saying your dad is a kind and generous man - and I’m sure you think he is. That doesn’t change the fact that he’s repeatedly voted for a party that he knows will be detrimental to the already most vulnerable in society. So for all he cares about what happens to the homeless (was it? Or whoever he was fundraising for) he doesn’t care enough to protect their interests politically, which is the best way to help them.

He’s essentially protected his own interests over anyone else’s - arguably even over yours because you said yourself Tory policy doesn’t help you. That’s either very short sighted, or he’s not quite the generous man you say he is.

Hi OP
I’d tell her to stop talking politics with you OP. If I felt a friend was being bitchy or snide about lifestyle choices I’d clearly made I’d call them out on it regardless of which political party they supported.

I’m not sure what answer you want? The bedroom tax came into stop people living in homes, funded by the state, that were too big for them and needed by others.

And this is massively ignorant - people had to pay that tax, even if they couldn’t afford it, even when their own council area had nowhere else to house them. Why wasn’t there a long-term policy in place to incentivise them to move? Why the stick over the carrot? Clue: because it was a punishment.

Really? Because you've been very keen throughout this thread, from your op onwards, to tell us all at great length how nice you and your family are. So I'd say it matters a fair bit to you what people think of you.

Possibly because most people are civil to/about people they like and/or respect. Which isn't something you can command.

It's easy to feel dispassionate when Tory policies haven't directly effected you- I used to be the same. Maybe your friend has been effected in ways that you are unaware of and that has sparked her anger. Have you actually tried having an open conversation with her about it?

Wasn't it a rather high profile Tory that compared Muslim women wearing Hijab with letter boxes?

I'm a labour party member, always have been. I absolutely loathe Conservative policies and I truly believe it's not the type of society I want us to have. But I strongly, strongly disagree with things like Tory Scum, or calling them disparaging names. I'd rather engage on policies than petty name calling.

@mbosnz

Wasn't it a rather high profile Tory that compared Muslim women wearing Hijab with letter boxes?

It was the same one who talked about ‘watermelon smiles’ and ‘picaninnies’ and children of single mothers being ‘ill-raised and ignorant’.

The 'bedroom tax' (a Gordon Brown idea, I believe) has had a devastating impact on the disabled - especially those who need 1 bedroom homes. It completely depleted an already very limited stock of 1 and 2 bedroom homes.

pumper because whether someone is kind and generous isn’t purely about the party they have voted for. You could be generous with your time, for instance, and be a Tory not labour. You could be kind when someone has been abusive to you and walk away rather than engage. There are small things everyday that a person can decide to do that build their character. In the same way that not all tories are selfish, not all labour supporters are kind and generous. If you genuinely believe that ticking a box on a card means your job is done and that you are suddenly magically a wonderfully generous and kind person because you ticked labour, then I worry for you. People are complicated and a full of grey areas. Many labour supporters are cruel and heartless and have done far less good in their life than an equivalent Tory, and vice versa. Please try and think about this in a day to day sense rather than abstract ideological voting - yes of course it trickles down and has impact in some places in reality, but really it is not as black and white as you seem to want to make it.

Again, just to remind you, this post was about the abusive language used towards tories and the fact it is crass and unnecessary. I didn’t even vote Tory!

@Pumperthepumper

I’m not sure what answer you want? The bedroom tax came into stop people living in homes, funded by the state, that were too big for them and needed by others.

And this is massively ignorant - people had to pay that tax, even if they couldn’t afford it, even when their own council area had nowhere else to house them. Why wasn’t there a long-term policy in place to incentivise them to move? Why the stick over the carrot? Clue: because it was a punishment.

Tbh it wasn't a punishment as much as a need to free up larger homes for bigger families. It's a horribly cruel policy - largely because of the depletion of 1 and 2 bedroom homes (taken by downsizers). This has had a devastating impact on the disabled.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.thecourier.co.uk/news/politics/85322/bedroom-tax-inspired-by-last-labour-government/amp/

I think you are just suffering from cognitive dissonance OP.

www.northwichguardian.co.uk/yoursay/letters/10988672.bedroom-tax-was-labours-idea/

@tabicae

pumper because whether someone is kind and generous isn’t purely about the party they have voted for. You could be generous with your time, for instance, and be a Tory not labour. You could be kind when someone has been abusive to you and walk away rather than engage. There are small things everyday that a person can decide to do that build their character. In the same way that not all tories are selfish, not all labour supporters are kind and generous. If you genuinely believe that ticking a box on a card means your job is done and that you are suddenly magically a wonderfully generous and kind person because you ticked labour, then I worry for you. People are complicated and a full of grey areas. Many labour supporters are cruel and heartless and have done far less good in their life than an equivalent Tory, and vice versa. Please try and think about this in a day to day sense rather than abstract ideological voting - yes of course it trickles down and has impact in some places in reality, but really it is not as black and white as you seem to want to make it.

Again, just to remind you, this post was about the abusive language used towards tories and the fact it is crass and unnecessary. I didn’t even vote Tory!

You keep saying the same thing - you seem to think your dad wants to protect the poor because he fundraises for them, while at the same time voting to have tighter restrictions on benefits and harder-to-access assistance. Those two ideals are fundamentally opposed. I guess in the same way you have the option of putting out an entire Forrest fire or pouring a bucket of water over it.

Your dad votes to protect his own interests, even against the interests of his own child.

I work for a homeless charity. Children leaving care who have nowhere to go when they reach 18 mainly. Please thank your Tory friends for volunteering at places like ours. We really need those helpers after the government for which they voted, you know Boris and his chums, cut over £1m of funding for our service alone last year.

You need to open your eyes OP.

I think whether you did vote Tory is a lot less relevant than the fact that you would if it benefitted you. This is maybe the thinking which your friend is riled up about.

I agree that being a labour voter does not guarantee that you are a kind and generous. I don't agree that being generous with your time makes up for voting in a self-interested way.

Re: your friend. I am wondering whether she finds you a little naive and is trying to open your eyes to some things she thinks you're blinkered about. If she talks politics again perhaps ask her if she thinks something about you that she is finding hard to put into words more directly. And just ask her to keep it polite rather than insulting when discussing things even if she feels very strongly. You could say "it sounds like you're calling my dad a cunt, is that what you meant?"