ADs are braving the wind and the rain

[CruCru]

Hi all

I couldn’t find the new thread so here is one I set up. It’s windy out there! Glad I weeded my flowerbeds a couple of days ago.

What I don't understand is how we got locked down based on a projection we weren't even tracking at the time.....

[quote Ibake]**@TrustTheGeneGenie* Simon Dolan just put this on Twitter from a whistleblower. I think this is gaining momentum now. @TabbyStar* I'm so sorry you're one of the excluded, it's utterly shit and Martin Lewis seemed to be indicating you're still unlikely to qualify even with the new support packages.

twitter.com/simondolan/status/1323528843454484481?s=21[/quote]
Reading between the lines of the email my MP sent and the data shown here, there is space in the NHS in terms of beds but staff sickness levels are high so they can't cope due to lack of staff.

Sorry meant to tag @Ibake

I know Loki and people are absolutely destroying the 4000 daily deaths scenario on Twitter. Ffs not one country has even come close to that so why they think we should is really worrying. Extraordinary to think that Wanksock bought it hook, line and sinker. He's either an idiot or corrupt and I have to say I now think it's the latter.

Yesterday Steve Baker posted the results of a zoom meeting he held with Emma Kenny, Tim Spector, Lord Sumption plus a couple of others whose names I forget. You can read the transcript. They put forward a compelling case and destroy the projections. It's whether Baker has got enough support to stop this. With labour backing full lockdown I'm not sure he has.

Whilst I support furlough in that I don't want any family to go hungry I find myself thinking it's a bad thing as it is stopping people from waking the fuck up.

[quote Iheartmysmart]@TrustTheGeneGenie Couldn’t agree more, the lack of transparency around the figures being bandied around is shocking. And people aren’t questioning them![/quote]
My dad has gone full on dementor. When I told him that Ofcom Covid regulations prevented any challenge of the government policies he said it was good because it ‘avoids confusion’.

"Staff sickness rates are high again, and hospitals are struggling to staff wards"

DH and I did discuss the theoretical "what if this doesn't get voted through" but as Labour have been fighting for lockdown for weeks, they can hardly vote it down now can they?

One thing which has always felt strange to me is the asymptomatic thing. If someone has The Virus and is asymptomatic they may be spreading it - fair enough, that kind of makes sense. BUT how long can someone be asymptomatic and carry the virus for? Should we all be shut away until we have symptoms? No I'm not getting a test when I'm perfectly healthy with a robust immune system that protects me from everything except one cold per year!

Personally — and sceptically — I wonder if there’s a long game being played here politically whereby the government is cynically aiming to convince large(r) sections of the country that the NHS ‘cannot cope’ and ‘isn’t fit for purpose’. They’ll argue that a functioning health service shouldn’t need 100-year-olds to pace their own gardens to raise money for it, and that it shouldn’t take shutting the entire country down twice to stop hospital ICUs being overwhelmed. (Even though the government itself engineered both these situations.)

I don’t know. Maybe my tinfoil hat needs refitting

I presume it would be similar 7-10 days max Blobby though less likely to shed. More of an argument for better protecting the vulnerable. I got a bit of an over-active immune response to it but I didn't get ill, and I didn't expect to because I hardly ever pick up anything.

The staffing thing makes sense. We've had doctors dropping like flies, but none of them actually ill which is the most frustrating thing.

On the one hand they're absolutely well enough to do their job and on the other they might pass it to patients. It's a no win scenario.

We had an accidental chickenpox nativity play one year. My kids and at least 8 of their friends were all spotty for New Year...

I'm glad there is a lot more public discourse against lockdown, contrary to what happened in March, when everybody was baying for it. I'm certainly not in favour of it, but I'm not particularly surprised about this lockdown happening.

But I think we should all be saying repeatedly "WHEN restrictions are eased on 2nd December"; lots of people, especially on MN, are gleefully gloomily saying that it will continue beyond then; I'm sure that if people keep parroting it, it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Lots of dementors, in the style of the government themselves, are deliberately confusing "ending lockdown full stop" with "ending this latest round of restrictions"; I'm settling for the latter on 2nd December. I'm not counting on the former until they find a vaccine (or some decoy which they will tell us is a vaccine).

Things not changing on 2nd Dec may be true, but Saint Boris has a habit of tailoring his actions to whatever he and his merry men think the public mood is; probably by monitoring social media. So, as I said earlier, I think we need to take him at his word that things will be eased on 2nd December: after all, the grand plan appears to be save Christmas, and Saint Boris doesn't want to be remembered as Oliver Cromwell; I doubt that even he is going to destroy the Christmas shopping market, despite many mumsnetters gleefully saying others. Shops and businesses need to be saying publicly "when we reopen on 2nd December". If the public are clearly ready to resume more normality on 2nd December, I think it's more likely to happen; and meanwhile, keep resisting in small ways, e.g signing petitions. I think they will listen to whoever shouts the loudest. If the public are clearly ready for it, it will be harder for the government not to reopen things; they don't want civil unrest.

Yes, Gove made his gleeful statement on Sunday, which was clearly part of the plan: perhaps something to make the public more likely to behave, covering the government's back; maybe the wasted three hours was the men squabbling over who would get to do this.

Very very quiet school run. Normally the parking outside our school is like Wacky Races (but Range Rovers, BMWs and Audis to give you an idea of general c onsideration levels) - hardly any cars on the street at all. Whether it's people now back working from home so walking the kids around to school - or if they've got them scared and are keeping them off... I don't know but it was a really concerning marked change.

Driving into work was carnage this morning (London borough) - much worse than normal - so I don't think quiet roads are happening everywhere! Although I guess people may be more worried about public transport.

We'd bloody better be released by 2nd as otherwise we will miss our Santa booking and I don't think DS would ever forgive me!

Going swimming this morning, sunny day here. See in news the following:

The government's three-tier system was effective in bringing down the number of coronavirus cases, an Oxford University professor has claimed.

Carl Heneghan, director of the university's Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine, said cases in Liverpool, where the most severe restrictions were imposed, had been brought down by a half and that hospital admissions had "stabilised".

Professor Heneghan said new lockdown measures should be based on "actual data" rather than models that had shown to be wrong, after he described how one forecast of 4,000 deaths a day was "mathematically proven" to be incorrect.

Yes, apparently they have to vote after a month, it can't just go on and on...

but Labour seem to vote for the most extreme measures so might vote for it anyway

My local news did a piece last night on numbers in the hospital had risen, then quietly added on the end only 1 in icu. So I'm guessing most of them are elderly or on post OP, surgical wards and tested and not actually admitted because of covid. They need to be straight and honest with the figures.

There’s lots of helpful people on Twitter, medics etc, many named already but some more

Suzanne Evans
Renee Hoenderkamp
Jade Eloise Norris often summarises the Parliament Science Group meetings
Law or fiction
Francis Hoar
Julia Hartley Brewer

@Weneedmusicandtheatre

A bad day here. Shattered and DC decided today was the day to remind himself how to grab a handful of my hair and refuse to let go. Am ashamed to say I shouted at them. Checked email later to discover that the small amount of singing work that recently came in has, unsurprisingly, disappeared with no guarantee the tiny amount left in December will actually happen either. This is normally the time of year where an day with no carol service/corporate gig (if not two) is rare and it pays the tax bill and a chunk of savings towards the leaner months in the new year. Feel shit as a mum and no longer a singer, so what am I actually for?

That sounds very hard. This is a terrible time for anyone in the arts.

@Orangeblossom7777 When have the government ever used actual data in any of this! It’s all been fudged to fit the agenda.
Boris needs to be careful as there soon won’t be enough taxpayers left to fund the contracts he keeps handing out to his cronies.

@Blobby10

One thing which has always felt strange to me is the asymptomatic thing. If someone has The Virus and is asymptomatic they may be spreading it - fair enough, that kind of makes sense. BUT how long can someone be asymptomatic and carry the virus for? Should we all be shut away until we have symptoms? No I'm not getting a test when I'm perfectly healthy with a robust immune system that protects me from everything except one cold per year!

There was some discussion that asymptomatic were unlikely to spread Covid, but that pre-symptomatic were likely to. Has there been anything further or has it been hushed up so the government can spread their fear based on number of positive Pcr tests?

Iheartmysmart I think more and more people seem to be employing some critical thinking and questioning not just the figures but the whole process. The type of critical thinking that those on the AD boards have been employing since the start! .

By questioning the 'experts', medical, scientific, whatever, we aren't saying that we know better or that we disrespect the years of study they have put into their chosen career, but simply acknowledge that we would like more information whether its about what we put into our bodies and why that course of action was chosen. If not taking antibiotics will mean feeling rubbish for only a couple of days longer then I may choose not to take them. If not taking antibiotics COULD cause a nasty eye infection to spread along my optic nerve to my brain then yes, I took the things without questioning further!

"Susie Dent's Word of the day is ‘latibulate’ (17th century): to hide in a corner in an attempt to escape reality." (twitter)

I think that would be a great word to get into the next title

@NannyGythaOgg

"Susie Dent's Word of the day is ‘latibulate’ (17th century): to hide in a corner in an attempt to escape reality." (twitter)

I think that would be a great word to get into the next title

Great word. My processing is in that kind of a state.

Friend has just said that she's furloughed. We now have a walk planned for school time next week.

@TabbyStar

Thanks for that list, I've got about half of them, I'll look for the rest.

I feel pretty angry and defiant because I'm one of the 3m people who fall through the financial safety nets despite having worked full time and paid taxes for 30 years. Abandoning people isn't the way to get buy in.

Snap @TabbyStar ... DH’s business was beginning to show some slight signs of being revived and now splat again ... I really don’t understand why the government thinks that throwing 3m people to the wolves is ok. It’s not as if they’re going to be treated more leniently as far as being taxed is concerned in future