SAHM - could you live off this amount of £

[Livingnearthesea]

Name changed. Sorry if this is long but I would appreciate some opinions please on 2 specific questions, so please no judgement about how SAHM should never become financially dependent etc.

I’ve been a SAHM for 5 years and had started to look for a job then Covid hit and local jobs have dried up.

DH does standing order for £200/month to me, and he pays for the gym. Out of that £200/month over the course of a year I need to pay for:
-Clothing and shoes
-Skincare / make up
-Any other personal items

• Mobile

-Gifts for family and friends (mine) -Prescriptions (need 2-3 per year) -Glasses prescription (varifocal so expensive, now needing new one second year in a row)

• Hair cuts

-Bus/train fares (don’t drive and we live 30 mins walk to town. I have significant diagnosed foot pain so I can’t always walk far) -Coffee or meal with friends (avoid the latter very often as becomes too expensive) -Taking DC out somewhere by myself so pay for transport, entry fees, lunch etc, or for play dates at a park where everyone else is buying snacks/coffee etc

• Garden plants & compost etc as DH sees little point in it looking nice
• DIY items like paint and materials, when I want to upgrade the paint work
• train to visit my relatives 1-2/year (min fare in advance about £80-100. I’ll now need to pay for DC as he has turned 5 so fares will be much more than stated)
• Misc

So, over the space of a year would this be enough for you to live off? I never spend money on nice things for myself like new clothing, nails, facials, fashion accessories etc). Over the past 2 years I have unfortunately built up a credit card bill of nearly £900 because I’ve found it hard to meet all expenses.

We have a joint account for the mortgage, all bills, groceries and misc bits and pieces.

Second question which is causing me a moral dilemma- I have just been told that I’ve won £300 in a prize draw that I entered. This would be amazing to put on the CC and make a huge effort to pay it off, but my dilemma is to whether to tell DH?

He earns £110k and comes from a very frugal family. As a result they are all quite wealthy so this £300 is nothing but pocket money to him. For me, this is a wonderful surprise but I know he’d say put it in the joint account and let’s do something nice as a family with it - but we wouldn’t (partly thanks to Covid but he’s also a workaholic and is too tired to do much, hence why I take DC out myself).

I’ve never been a deceitful person but he’s so tight with money sometimes yet only wears designer clothes and suits himself, bought himself a £42k car recently etc and here I am not having had any decent new clothes since I had DC (it you can count £5 t-shirts)- I shop in charity shops only now.

I’m torn. Please believe me when I say I’ve never been a deceitful person, but he would not be happy if I kept this money for myself yet he doesn’t exactly lavish money on me like he does himself (I don’t expect lavish things btw - it would just be nice to be bought a pair of winter boots that suit my bad foot - plantar fasciitis - rather than the cheap shoes I buy that never do).
He does buy me things like jewellery and a rain coat, but he seems to think as a SAHM I don’t need things.

Preparing to be told this financial situation is all my fault

[quote Mummyoflittledragon]@LittleBearPad
Bill has been combative and poo poo’d anyone, who doesn’t agree with him from the start. He’s engaged with so many posters by quoting them and rubbishing their posts. Then complained when they have responded. All I see is a man, who cannot contemplate that there is a possibility op is under coercive control but doesn’t realise it. In a marriage it is not normal to be forbidden from buying oneself the basics when the cash is available. The way she speaks of the the £300 is not normal.[/quote]
I have not rubbished anyone’s views, all I’ve consistently pointed out is that it’s not right to jump to a conclusion and advise on that when some key info is not available.

I see posters who cannot contemplate there is a possibility the OP is NOT under coercive control. I accept there is a possibility of abuse, do you accept there is a possibility there isn’t?

It’s clear I’m being singled out by a couple of posters as I’m a man. Other posters with the same opinion are not being insulted.

I’ve been on mumsnet for 8 years and posted on many threads. Threads about my children with cystic fibrosis, about my wife’s affairs and my divorce, about a whole raft of things. I see double standards from time to time and sometimes point that out, but generally I’ve found this site to be helpful, friendly and supportive to both men and women who need it.

This is the first time I’ve genuinely felt that my sex has been used to try and discredit my opinion, personally insult me and try and shout me down. I’m disappointed that has happened on here.

I know abuse is an emotive issue, and an important one. I absolutely believe that the only acceptable level of abuse is none. Don’t paint me as part of the problem due to nothing more than my sex

[quote Mummyoflittledragon]@LittleBearPad
Bill has been combative and poo poo’d anyone, who doesn’t agree with him from the start. He’s engaged with so many posters by quoting them and rubbishing their posts. Then complained when they have responded. All I see is a man, who cannot contemplate that there is a possibility op is under coercive control but doesn’t realise it. In a marriage it is not normal to be forbidden from buying oneself the basics when the cash is available. The way she speaks of the the £300 is not normal.[/quote]
This is hog wash.

If he genuinely hates debt then show him your credit card statements. That itself would show him you need an increase on the amount of money you get. I wouldn’t hide the winnings either. I hate deception unless it is necessary. Is it necessary for you to hide it?

@BillMasen
I have premium. That means I can look at everyone’s post on a thread. You are the poster, who stands out as having challenged pretty much every single poster, who’s put something on the thread you don’t agree with. And what you’ve written reads to me as dismissing them with the ffs and look another one and another one and yet another one. The inference to me is that there is a man on the thread policing it and that is why I, personally, have engaged with you rather than other posters. To be clear, I do not think it is ok for anyone bar MNHQ to police a thread on Mumsnet. So I’m sorry if you feel singled out but perhaps you do not appreciate how your comments read to women such as myself, who know about or have been through abuse, whatever the type of abuse (and that would be a lot of women). And in answer to your question, of course I can contemplate that op may not be in a controlling relationship despite how it reads to the contrary.

[quote Mummyoflittledragon]@BillMasen
I have premium. That means I can look at everyone’s post on a thread. You are the poster, who stands out as having challenged pretty much every single poster, who’s put something on the thread you don’t agree with. And what you’ve written reads to me as dismissing them with the ffs and look another one and another one and yet another one. The inference to me is that there is a man on the thread policing it and that is why I, personally, have engaged with you rather than other posters. To be clear, I do not think it is ok for anyone bar MNHQ to police a thread on Mumsnet. So I’m sorry if you feel singled out but perhaps you do not appreciate how your comments read to women such as myself, who know about or have been through abuse, whatever the type of abuse (and that would be a lot of women). And in answer to your question, of course I can contemplate that op may not be in a controlling relationship despite how it reads to the contrary.[/quote]
I have not and would not dismiss others genuine opinions. My frustration at people extrapolating from nothing and leaping to conclusions probably came out but I have only ever challenged that aspect of peoples posts.

No policing from me. Maybe from you though...

And I do understand and appreciate the experience of people who know about abuse. Genuinely.

I do think that can sometimes lead to them coming to an abuse conclusion that is more based on their own experience than what a poster has said. If I challenged that in a way that came across as me dismissing or minimising their experience for that I apologise

That's ridiculous, £200 a month and he earns 110k a year... that's unreal. My partner earns 27000 a year and gives me more than that, I'd be having some words to be honest. You being a stay at home mum is a joint decision and he will also benefit from in lots of ways.

Bill. I do think that can sometimes lead to them coming to an abuse conclusion that is more based on their own experience than what a poster has said. People are identifying things that may, or may not be, red flags, from personal or professional experience, or common sense. There are plenty of those.

Some posters have given advice which would be fine for someone who is with a fundamentally decent partner, but completely wrong for someone who is being abused. It's very common for abusers to convince their victim that the situation is the victims fault. When something doesn't quite add up, like the poster not knowing what to do with her own £300 win, and keeping a worrying debt from her wealthy husband, its fair to think about what might be behind it.

@Darker

Bill. I do think that can sometimes lead to them coming to an abuse conclusion that is more based on their own experience than what a poster has said. People are identifying things that may, or may not be, red flags, from personal or professional experience, or common sense. There are plenty of those.

Some posters have given advice which would be fine for someone who is with a fundamentally decent partner, but completely wrong for someone who is being abused. It's very common for abusers to convince their victim that the situation is the victims fault. When something doesn't quite add up, like the poster not knowing what to do with her own £300 win, and keeping a worrying debt from her wealthy husband, its fair to think about what might be behind it.

Yes if is fair to think about what might be behind that.

The posters I challenged were advising the OP to immediately leave, walk out, divorce, no discussion, no conversation. I felt that was a huge leap and not based on the facts. That’s all.

Do you not think that is poor advice when we did not know a whole raft of things about the OPs relationship?

I agree its poor advice - its very dangerous to walk out on an abuser. Abuse often escalates post-separation.

We work out bills, savings and have our pocket money for the month. You DH and you should be equal. My DH actually give me more as my hair etc costs more than his. Your DH is being unfair.

Having a conversation with an abuser is also shit advice.

They cannot be reasoned with. Best to quietly make a plan to leave safely and then do so.

@Completmentfille

Having a conversation with an abuser is also shit advice.

They cannot be reasoned with. Best to quietly make a plan to leave safely and then do so.

I agree

But the OP has not given information to draw that conclusion. You have, based on nothing that she has said. Can’t you see that’s my point.

Your situation doesn't sound as bleak after your latest post OP.

It sounds like part of the problem is that you haven't actually told/shown your dp how much things costs and where the £200 + goes every month.

If he works very long hours and is obsessed with investments etc, it sounds like he's got no idea what your life is like.

That you're having your NI stamp paid, that you have direct access to your joint account and that your pension contributions are being paid from your household wage is good news. Is there a reason that you can't pay for eg days out, gardening and decorating expenses, glasses prescriptions, travel etc through the joint account?

But the OP has not given information to draw that conclusion. You have, based on nothing that she has said. Can’t you see that’s my point.

Yes she she's, and yes I see your point, and I don't agree with it.

I'm curious to hear the answer as to what other reason you think the OP could have, when she has free access to the joint account, to instead run up a secret credit card bill.

But Bill there are clues that this is a real possibility. Obviously you don't recognise these clues. Please don't base your response on your own experience, which is what you are saying other people are doing.

He's a prick

I just take money out my husbands account for what I want or need

I am not unreasonable taking money for stuff that's ridiculous but I take wbartevrr I want
And I'm never questioned

He's grim

Divorce him and have half his assets and the house.

Yes you could live on that if your husband earned 30,000 a year. You would maybe have to. But as he earns 110,000 a year, this is him being a tight and unpleasant, unnecessarily controlling OH. Def keep the winnings from him.

Look I’m going to disengage now. I think it’s clear some posters have leapt to an unproven conclusion and are defending that. You think a man who doesn’t understand abuse can’t see it. I respect your position but disagree, you hopefully feel the same.

However, please don’t dismiss posters as just “men” who can therefore be insulted and belittled. I have been singled out for robust challenge when other posters have not, and I have had my sex specifically raised as a reason for me being “wrong”. That’s not fair.

All the best to the OP. I hope I’m right and that communication can resolve this. I’m in wrong you will have great support on here.

*if I’m wrong

I think that pp are missing the point that husband has his wages paid into his sole account and then transfers a portion of his income to the joint account from which the mortgage, CT, bills etc are paid.

OP only has access to the joint account which it seems only receives sufficient money to cover essentials - hence having to pay for things that her husband doesn't consider essential from her monthly personal allowance. It seems that she would rather incur personal debt rather than pay for 'unnecessary' household expenses like paint or plants from the joint account and possibly face critical questioning. Maybe the buffer is ringfenced in case of unplanned essential expenditure if say the washing machine needed to be replaced.

This is control and that level of unnecessary control is abusive. Upbringing and aspirations to be a millionaire are justifications to make it appear reasonable and dangle a carrot.

A chat about whether abusive control is really fair and communicating clearly to the abuser that it is not working for you will never be sufficient. Not for physical abuse, not for psychological abuse and not for financial abuse. He already knows it is not fair and he doesn't care about your feelings and it is all working just fine for him.

Maybe @Livingnearthesea could settle the many arguments and let us know how the conversation went? Can we stop worrying about you? Or do you need some more help?

Before Covid (and belt tightening because my DH works in the Arts) we gave each other £260 a month as beer money. DH spent his own gifts to me, nights out, lunches, beer, haircuts etc. I spent it on lunches (if bought out), dinners, drinks without DH, haircuts, makeup, clothes, presents for him.

Everything else inc travel, meals together, kids stuff etc are from joint acct.

I think you are expected to use it for too much stuff. I think only personal stuff should be included.

That’s dreadful!!!

No, it’s not enough. You need to tell him.