His 'hobby' strikes again - when do mums get to have fun??

[ArtemisBean]

DH has just shoved off for another full day doing his hobby. It's not every week but it's a pain in the arse being left for 14+ hours alone with a toddler and pregnant while he swans off enjoying himself. I'm keeping count of the days he owes me to go off and enjoy MYself (ha!) but I genuinely don't know what I'd do all day given half the chance, especially in these times when lots of places are closed. Anyone else feeling like a hobby widow and would like to commiserate? I know there's plenty of us out there. And ideas for fun ways to spend all these days off I'm due would be much appreciated so I can plan my revenge (lighthearted, sort of 😛).

Re: hobby personally I think he’s part of the Sealed Knot or whatever those fluffy hatted civil war oddballs are called
OR he restores old steamrollers and races them very slowly

LOL at whipsnade zoo!

OP, if you're going back to work, look into shared parental leave. Easier for you to concentrate on settling back into work if the baby is still at home with its father, and a few weeks at home with small children will do him no harm and make him realise how hard you're working when he fucks off for 14 hours at a time.

You don't need a hobby though.

The only thing that's needed is a cast iron rule that downtime is equal and parenting is shared.

So - another 14 hour day? 'Oh no, how are you going to manage that with the kids with you? You've now had three days child-free to my one - I'm not willing to do another lone day with them right now I'm afraid, you've already clocked up a load of time that's not been evened out yet. You'll have to work something out. Sorry'

Hobbies and extra curriculum activities are healthy

Whether it be painting by numbers, book club, a morning walking club

It’s especially important for parents of young children to be out doing something else for many reasons and if these things make them mentally happier then they’ll be better parents

The only thing that's needed is a cast iron rule that downtime is equal and parenting is shared.

So - another 14 hour day? 'Oh no, how are you going to manage that with the kids with you? You've now had three days child-free to my one - I'm not willing to do another lone day with them right now I'm afraid, you've already clocked up a load of time that's not been evened out yet. You'll have to work something out. Sorry'
Yes! 👏👏

Crucially, the OP actually has to have made an attempt to get their down time. It would be unreasonable to sit there clocking up the time, never saying anything and then saying what you've said, but otherwise I totally agree with you.

MindyStClaire
Another great idea. The OP needs to check the impact on pay if she does that. Sometimes the household is financially better off doing shared parental leave rather than mum on maternity for a year.

I think it is difficult to think about Hobbies when you are pregnant and with a toddler to look after! By all means maybe catch a friend for lunch or have a night off at a Hotel if you can.However looking to do something like Art or Running ,is going to be difficult to imagine for the foreseeable future! I think you should tell DH that you are tired and see if he can take DC swimming/park /whatever on a weekly basis .SIL has the right idea though Good for her!

What I'm saying is that most of the arguments seem to rest on the idea 'I don't have any interests or hobbies so you shouldn't either'.

Really? I haven't seen that once. That seems to be reading quite a lot into people's objections to things like 'doing 14-hour days on a hobby' and 'taking up incredibly time-consuming hobbies' when you have small children at home.

GoldenOmber
I have, along with the usual claims that the whole household wouldn't function if they did anything for themselves. Men who managed just fine domestically as a single man are now apparently incapable of doing laundry or watching their children for an afternoon, and this is just accepted.

There's some seriously selfish men out there; nobody would doubt that.

But I still find it amazing that on here there's so many men who manage to find women who are willing to settle down with them, stay with them and continue to have children with them when they are terrible partners (expect their DW/DP to carry the household duties), are ridiculously selfish, are disengaged fathers (to the point where apparently they couldn't parent their own child) and are all round feckless man children. On mumsnet these men are apparently the norm and yet there's no shortage of people willing to settle down with them and have their children.

I also find it bizarre how many times the idea of both parents having equitable free time to themselves is shot down by posters on here. When that happens it does come across like 'I don't have hobbies so no body should' / 'I don't plan on changing the situation but want validation', otherwise what's there to object to? Surely both parents having time for hobbies and interests is entirely sensible.

I also find it bizarre how many times the idea of both parents having equitable free time to themselves is shot down by posters on here.

Well, possibly because there comes a point when it's just not really manageable if you want to spend any time together as a family or as a couple?

Mostly yes it's common sense that equitable free time should be shared, but when it's someone saying "DH is out three evenings a week 5pm-11pm and all day every Saturday", saying "that leaves you half the week to do the same yourself so what's the problem?" is not really the answer. Interpreting having a problem with that as being jealous of the DH having interests and hobbies or spitefully wanting to deny him free time is just missing the point.

I would say for most couples I know with young children, both parents have cut down on their existing hobbies/interests while still doing them a bit and sharing that time equitably. Most dads don't suddenly decide to take up road racing or intensively train for a marathon when they've got toddlers at home. But the parents I can think of that do do that are always dads. (And I don't know why anyone would marry them either, maybe they seemed less selfish at the time.)

Well, possibly because there comes a point when it's just not really manageable if you want to spend any time together as a family or as a couple?

Mostly yes it's common sense that equitable free time should be shared, but when it's someone saying "DH is out three evenings a week 5pm-11pm and all day every Saturday", saying "that leaves you half the week to do the same yourself so what's the problem?" is not really the answer. Interpreting having a problem with that as being jealous of the DH having interests and hobbies or spitefully wanting to deny him free time is just missing the point.

The solution is that he doesn't have 3 nights a week then, not that he has 3 nights a week and his wife spends her time showing that's acceptable whilst complaining on mumsnet.

It's not unreasonable to look at what time is available out of work, factor in time as a couple, factor in time as a family, and with what's left ensure that both parents get some free time to themselves.

Put it this way, if there's time for Dad to do his thing in a week then there is time for Mum to do hers. If there's only 3 hours a week free then that's 1.5 hours each, not 3 hours for dad and mum just accepts it because otherwise there'll be no family time.

You're right that many people manage this sort of arrangement. It's the sensible approach, and also the norm in my circle of friends.

It just amazes me that on here there's so many people who refuse to consider that there's ways to be equitable. It does feel like they don't actually want hobbies or interests, they just want DH to be pottering at home with them.

@dottiedodah

I think it is difficult to think about Hobbies when you are pregnant and with a toddler to look after! By all means maybe catch a friend for lunch or have a night off at a Hotel if you can.However looking to do something like Art or Running ,is going to be difficult to imagine for the foreseeable future! I think you should tell DH that you are tired and see if he can take DC swimming/park /whatever on a weekly basis .SIL has the right idea though Good for her!

What?! Why? You share care of the DC and do your painting or go for a run. Its really not that hard!

Running for many women can be hard/impossible when you're pregnant and for a while after birth, so maybe that's the issue? Art isn't quite so physical though!

@guineapig1

Goatinthegarden

My SIL has very cleverly gotten the children involved in dbro’s hobbies. Now the children are desperate to go with him whenever it’s hobby time, so when he disappears for the day, so do they

This is genius!

A man who sabotaged his wife’s down time like that would be pulled apart.

*What really stands out for me on here is the amount of women saying that they don’t have hobbies or their hobby is “sitting in a cafe drinking a coffee”. It seems a shame that we as women don’t seem to have the same enjoyment of physically active hobbies as men do - I wonder if it’s a confidence issue or an expense issue (feels too indulgent to buy a £2k time trial bike like a lot of men I know do) or just a lack of having other women to go with?

Sitting drinking caffeine just doesn’t seem like the healthiest hobby or way to replenish the batteries and care for ones mental and physical health to me.*

Yep, I'm one of those coffee drinkers! I also walk since I can't run anymore or do anything more than yoga due to a knee injury. Thanks for preaching though to a former marathon runner! For me, replenishing my batteries is just getting out of the house on my own!

Does it really matter what a woman does in her own time ?
Seriously missing the bloody point 🙄
The point is having time to do things that you enjoy.
Its not healthy to just give it up because you had a child .

i was exhausted when I was pregnant and had a toddler. I just wanted my husband to take the toddler out for a bit so I could relax, maybe take a shower, watch something on Netflix. I really had no interest in going for a run or painting. Now the kids are older, I've started running again and I'm into journalling and drawing. But, life is so hard when your kids are small. I wouldn't judge mums for not having the energy for hobbies.

@Nikori Absolutely! To be honest, at five months pregnant, what I'd like most is the odd day of sleep, peace, and someone bringing me unlimited food and drink! I'll definitely be taking my hobbies back up again when I've got some energy back. Until then I'd just like a bloody rest! 😂

I’m the one with the regular hobby. Dh says he accepts it. But in reality I don’t think he does. I ride and occasionally compete in show jumping when I can. Haven’t for a couple of years now.

I don’t have my own pony but drive 20 mins to the riding stables have a lesson untack brush then come back (another 20 mins drive home. Lesson is about an hour). Dh has said a few times now that I’m gone all day. Leaving him stuck home with the kids (1 and 3).

Yet says he understands I need the time away. Because I have them all day on a Friday on my own and am essentially working full time too.

But the argument is that I should be doing my hobby at a time which doesn’t inconvenience him. I carry on though because come
Summer he’s out most evenings on his paddleboard. Or kayak.

@GoldenOmber

I also find it bizarre how many times the idea of both parents having equitable free time to themselves is shot down by posters on here.

Well, possibly because there comes a point when it's just not really manageable if you want to spend any time together as a family or as a couple?

Mostly yes it's common sense that equitable free time should be shared, but when it's someone saying "DH is out three evenings a week 5pm-11pm and all day every Saturday", saying "that leaves you half the week to do the same yourself so what's the problem?" is not really the answer. Interpreting having a problem with that as being jealous of the DH having interests and hobbies or spitefully wanting to deny him free time is just missing the point.

I would say for most couples I know with young children, both parents have cut down on their existing hobbies/interests while still doing them a bit and sharing that time equitably. Most dads don't suddenly decide to take up road racing or intensively train for a marathon when they've got toddlers at home. But the parents I can think of that do do that are always dads. (And I don't know why anyone would marry them either, maybe they seemed less selfish at the time.)

Yes, precisely. There often seems a shocking lack of understanding that actually, the man is taking such a massive chunk of time for his hobby that in fact the woman having equal time for hers isn't at all practical. Particularly so when the physical aspects of motherhood are involved. So sometimes it might be a bf mum who struggles to leave for a lengthy period (note- this is not an opportunity for anecdotes about bf mums who did, nobody's saying no bf mum ever can). In this instance the OP is pregnant, knackered, dealing with a toddler and living in the middle of a pandemic where options are limited. The solution to this issue is very clearly not her taking as much time doing hobbies, and the amount of time the DH is carving out for himself here is the problem.

CrappleUmble
But even breastfeeding mums don't have to say it's either 6 hours away or nothing!

Are we seriously going to get to the point where it's still being argued thay its impossible for a mum to have any time to herself? That its impossible for mum to have a bath and watch something on the telly? That it's not possible for mum to sit down and read a book in peace, or do a craft in the house? That despite there being loads of options for a mum to have a break, none of them are possible for most mums?

Because if all these ways of mum having an ounce of free time is impossible then what the hell are people doing when they're choosing their partners?

Yet again it's 'dad is unreasonable for having hobby time because it's apparantly impossible for mum to have any time to herself'.

Seriously, maybe my friendship circle has it all wrong. Everyone manages to have hobby time, down time and a generally equitable approach to life, but come on mumsnet and people love complaining about any unfairness (rightfully) but also love arguing that any fair solution is impossible for most people.

I stated very clearly LolaSmiles that I am aware that being a breastfeeding mum does not in itself mean you can never leave a baby, because I knew someone would immediately chime in to say just that.

The point is that there are some women who are stages in their breastfeeding where they're not able to leave the baby for a lengthy period. There is no getting round that. This means that when their partners are carving large chunks of time out for their hobbies, which is the example I gave, them doing the same is not an equivalent possibility, and the mothers carving out smaller chunks in the way you mention is not an equivalent amount of time.

MN often struggles with this idea. Instead of engaging with the actual circumstances, posters go straight to strawmen. There being some women who can leave breastfed babies for a long period and it being possible to take some time out for a relaxing bath do not affect what's actually being talked about.

CrappleUmble
My point is it isn't a case of all or nothing for either parent. Why shouldn't an equal approach be achieved?

When a baby is young then equal and fair will look very different to a toddler or an older child. A fair distribution is still possible, even if it means dad getting less than he would like.

It's the inevitable challenge to any suggestion of an equal and fair allocation of downtime that I have an issue with.

If dad has a Saturday morning playing football then there no reason mum can't have the same time during the week or on a Sunday. If dad goes to the match then why can't mum have an afternoon with friends?

Having been a breastfeeding mum with clingy DC I had to pass on my Saturday morning runs, especially waiting for lengthy healing, but I didn't begrudge DH doing his Saturday thing because I had time to myself elsewhere in the week. Sure it wasn't the full morning block I had pre-DC but it was still equitable and I'd have been an arsehole to moan that he wanted to maintain a hobby.

There's a determination at times on here to argue against any form of equitable downtime because either it's impossible/ dad can't look after DC/ mums value family time more/ there isn't time / it's just not practical / even if the same amount of time is allocated then that also doesn't count for whatever reason. It seems like the only solution some posters are happy with is if a guy barely leaves the house. If a man ever expected that of me I'd be telling him where to go because its suffocating.

The problem is that there are occasions when fair and equal downtime simply isn't a possibility, and the solution to the issue of the mother struggling is the father not spending lengthy periods of time doing hobbies. This is one of them. The existence of circumstances where the mother could take equal time isn't relevant to that point. The only reason they're being discussed is because so many MNers are incapable of seeing a thread about a DH taking the piss with his hobbies without defaulting to strawmen.

On this thread, the problem is the amount of time being spent on the hobby. It is inherently unreasonable for the DH to behave as he is doing. That is the issue here. It is bemusing that so many of you want to strawman about the DHs being expected not to have hobbies at all, when literally nobody has said that. It is perfectly possible and reasonable to have a hobby or leisure pursuit that does not require participants to regularly monopolise scarce days off leaving pregnant wives to care for toddlers unassisted for 14 hours. Not that you'd think it from some of the posts on this thread.

Agreed @CrappleUmble

And OP, you may tot up the hours owed. I did that too. I never got to cash them in! As DH said my score keeping was petty. It was, maybe

Ultimately, I started going out a lot with the kids myself, without him. He’d come home at 3pm from his hobby... but we were not there waiting for him, we’d be on the beach, or with friends, out for the day.

First it suited him, but then he realised he missed all the fun bits with the kids, he always had to explain to his parents, when DC told them about fun outings, why daddy wasn’t there.

He’s not in the photos of the kids when they were about 1-6 as he was doing his hobby.

I was mentally detaching from him and ready to move on alone, with the kids, when he had a massive wake up moment and felt huge regret, and realised his selfishness, and changed his work hours, his hobby time, his life, to spend more time with us.

But it wasn’t a “win” really for me, I genuinely detached and then deliberately excluded him at times. I pushed it to make-or-break point by showing him we did not need him

Not sure what the real solution is

This kind of thing is tough

Fight your corner, being a martyr was a waste of time for me

If dad has a Saturday morning playing football then there no reason mum can't have the same time during the week or on a Sunday. If dad goes to the match then why can't mum have an afternoon with friends?

But that's not the scenario here, and frankly it never is because as you say that's perfectly sensible. What's being discussed here is the dad leaving the mum for 14 hours to look after a toddler by herself while pregnant. That's a long old slog, not a few hours.

Or on other threads, the football is every Saturday morning (fine...) but followed by a trip to the pub and a husband arriving home hours later than he said, in no fit state for the outing planned the night before.

The case where each parent has a hobby that takes a few hours a week and everyone's happy isn't discussed because there's no need to do so.