So it's illegal to teach the idea of white privilege as fact now. I guess that's the same for male privilege, class privilege etc

[chomalungma]

It's got to be hard to discuss racism, sexism, class advantage to pupils and to discuss how that can be overcome without directly teaching about white privilege, male privilege, class privilege as fact.

Maybe they could offer alternative views?

This is the debate on Black History Month - which is a fascinating read

hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2020-10-20/debates/5B0E393E-8778-4973-B318-C17797DFBB22/BlackHistoryMonth

And the Government view

"Lots of pernicious stuff is being pushed, and we stand against that. We do not want teachers to teach their white pupils about white privilege and inherited racial guilt. Let me be clear that any school that teaches those elements of critical race theory as fact, or that promotes partisan political views such as defunding the police without offering a balanced treatment of opposing views, is breaking the law"

So parents can discuss it with their children, but teachers can't discuss it

[pastandpresent]

Doesn't that say you can, but you just need to offer the balanced treatment of the opposing view? So, teachers are allowed to discuss,, but it has to be done from both sides of pov, not just one sided view?

[Burnout101]

Having read all of what he said, they can discuss it but they're not there to be political, they can't teach it as fact that all the children should go along with and not make their own mind up about. They can explain and discuss white privilege but they can't teach that all white people definitely have white privilege, they have to offer a balanced view of what that actually looks like, why some people are being treated differently because of their colour, how that works in modern Britain (I agree with his comment of not teaching as if we're in America). Teachers can discuss it but they can't preach white privilege as fact which I think is fair enough, to use an extreme example - would you want a white Jewish child on the poverty line with great grandparents who were polish refugees going home believing as FACT they will always have to be responsible for racial guilt due to their white privilege regardless of their own history or behaviour? No, you want them to have a full understanding of all the factors involved.

[noblegiraffe]

Teachers have always not been allowed to be politically biased in the classroom. By saying critical race theory is political opinion it means we need to present a balanced view as opposed to something like homophobia where it is to be robustly challenged.

[noblegiraffe]

Oh and of course actual racism will be properly dealt with. That’s not up for discussion.

[chomalungma]

y saying critical race theory is political opinion it means we need to present a balanced view as opposed to something like homophobia where it is to be robustly challenged

What about the idea of straight privilege?

Is that political opinion?
Male privilege? Is that political opinion?

Surely homophobia and straight privilege are 2 sides of the same coin. You can't have homophobia without straight privilege.

You can't have sexism without male privilege,

You can't have racism without white privilege

[MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously]

White privilege isn't a fact, since it doesn't apply to all white people. Teachers need to stick to actual, verifiable facts.

[noblegiraffe]

Telling a bunch of white, working class boys who are the lowest achieving main ethnic group in England that they have white privilege is possibly not the lesson you might hope it to be.

[Burnout101]

Yes, you can't have sexism without male privilege and you can teach issues around male privilege, how it could occur or affect someone and start a discussion about what it looks like, why it's important, what to do about it etc. You can even teach that all women are affected by male privilege in one way or another. But you can't teach all males are privileged and all males are guilty for the effects of male privilege. That's the difference.

[Soontobe60]

@noblegiraffe

Telling a bunch of white, working class boys who are the lowest achieving main ethnic group in England that they have white privilege is possibly not the lesson you might hope it to be.

This absolutely! You don’t tackle racism by telling white people they're all privileged. I watched a YouTube video about white privileged where Munroe B was being interviewed about it. They were talking about white supremacy and MB said all white people are supremacists while Black people were most marginalised. They were challenged by the interviewer who pointed out that As a Black person, MB had done much better than their white working class peers as they’d attended a Grammar school, been to university and was wealthy. As a cohort, white working class boys have the worst outcomes in education, are more likely to end up with custodial sentences, be homeless at some point in their lives, and commit suicide. That’s hardly privilege.
Generalising about a whole group of people is never good.

[OneEpisode]

I do believe I am privileged from being white, right handed and autumn born. All of those things about me are factual and I think the privilege I derive from those is also real, not a theory. They do need to be put into context; left handed people shouldn’t be written off, and even those born in the summer can amount to something. The correlation is statistical, individuals still have their own capabilities and potentials and desires.

Critical race theory is a completely unproven theory, and should not be taught as fact, no matter how profitable it is for the (often white) book writers and professional speakers.

[mopphead]

This seems good and fine to me. Political opinion has no place being taught as fact. Fine to discuss, not fine to state. There are perfectly good reasons for this: contentious topics are ones where there is disagreement, so best not risk teaching as fact something false. (I mean this in general, not for this particular topic)

[chomalungma]

Don't all men benefit from nale privilege? I thought that was the basis of privilege. They may not realise they benefit but they do

[chomalungma]

Male privilege

[teacherneedingaholiday]

I don’t think it would be possible to teach it in the classroom, to be honest.

[MorrisZapp]

You can teach history as fact, sociology as fact etc but without the word or concept of privilege. Its a contrarian, dividing concept that creates further divisions instead of bringing people together.

[Elsiebear90]

I think people are not understanding what white privilege is, it’s not that you live a charmed life because you’re white, it’s that your skin colour does not make your life harder. The same as when you’re straight your sexuality does not make your life harder.

[inchyra]

Anyone who thinks white privilege is a thing has never been to Asia where they believe

We’re not intelligent because we’re inbred
We’re sexually incontinent
We’re amoral
We smell of shit (because we use loo paper rather than washing)
We’re alcoholics
We’re violent when even a little pissed
We only bathe once a week on a Sunday evening
We don’t rinse soap bubbles after washing our dishes which is why
Our food tastes bad

Many more prejudices I’ve probably not been told about.

Statistics regularly show white British working class boys are consistently under-achievers at school, despite the so-called privilege of their skin colour.

[pastandpresent]

Elsiebear90, what you say does really make sense to me. I am not white, so I really don't understand what white privilege is, but if you put it that way, yes, it certainly makes sense. It certainly makes even more sense since I have a mixed race child, who was born in UK, and have British/white father, but he is often treated differently from a child who has both white mum and dad.

[amusedtodeath1]

Because whilst being racist is something you can educate against, white privilege is not. White people can't help the fact that racists treat white people better than black. Education yes, blame and guilt for something they don't want, haven't caused and can't do anything about doesn't help anyone. IMO.

[CayrolBaaaskin]

I think you misunderstand sexism, racism, etc if you think you need privilege to have them or teach them. Sexism can be directed at men or women. Racism can be directed at any race (as legally defined) including white people.

[Caroncanta]

Telling a bunch of white, working class boys who are the lowest achieving main ethnic group in England that they have white privilege is possibly not the lesson you might hope it to be

Yes I agree with this.

[Stompythedinosaur]

I mean, there is a perfectly adequate quantity of research papers to support the existence of white privilege. It is absolutely a part of my completely evidence-based therapy qualifications.

Not mentioning it is a political stance also.

[turnitonagain]

@noblegiraffe

Telling a bunch of white, working class boys who are the lowest achieving main ethnic group in England that they have white privilege is possibly not the lesson you might hope it to be.

Does this map onto their lifetime earnings also? I’d be curious to see that data.