What constitutes to someone being Irish?

[Cybercubed]

Born there? Parents from there? Grandparents from there?

I'm born and raised in England, my parents are both Irish (mum from Belfast Dad from the ROI). In England whilst growing up people routinely called me Irish and so that's how I saw myself. Then I moved to Northern Ireland as teenager and had a reality check, because then everyone started calling me English. I still have an English accent so everyone still refers me to as an English person here. I've always understandably have a bit of an identity crisis therefore, compounded by the fact that the "British vs Irish" issue is right of the forefront of Northern Ireland politics as well I don't feel I fit in with either community here.

We've all heard of the term 'plastic paddy' which usually gets thrown at anyone with a non Irish accent calling themselves Irish. I personally don't really identify as anything more and feel kinda stateless but do you think calling yourself Irish should be reserved for those who are born and/or raised there only?

This is what I really don't understand.

Many people have said to me in Irland about how badly Irish people were treated in England.

Then, why do so many people in Ireland treat Polish people, Asian people and black people terribly when they come to Ireland?

Two stories about racism in Ireland were in the news very recently. In one story, a black woman was ut walking in Galway, Ireland, and an Irihs man shouted at her"n*er go home to your own country".

In the second story, a group if irish teenagers were racially abusing an Asian woman in Dublin, she stopped to tell them that this was not okay,a and then they pushed her into a canal and laughed at her.

Apologies for the awful typos on my phone!

Because you get scum in every country and unfortunately racism is everywhere @Sarahpaula. Most Irish people were horrified by that incident.

We need to tackle racism everywhere, and not see ourselves as being from "one country".

This leads to a "my country versus their country", attitude which is causing so many problems everywhere.

We are all from the world.

That is true @SionnachRua a lot of countries need to tackle racism. It is the big thing that needs to improve around the world. it would make so many people's lives better.

@Sarahpaula

This is what I really don't understand.

Many people have said to me in Irland about how badly Irish people were treated in England.

Then, why do so many people in Ireland treat Polish people, Asian people and black people terribly when they come to Ireland?

Two stories about racism in Ireland were in the news very recently. In one story, a black woman was ut walking in Galway, Ireland, and an Irihs man shouted at her"n*er go home to your own country".

In the second story, a group if irish teenagers were racially abusing an Asian woman in Dublin, she stopped to tell them that this was not okay,a and then they pushed her into a canal and laughed at her.

The reason is that it’s only these extremes that are acknowledged. And the Irish recount the no Irish no blacks signs here.

Subtle everyday racism isn’t recognised. The security guard following the black customer. Talking about Polish lads as if they are simpleton paupers and they should be on bended knee with gratitude to be allowed to build that roundabout. (What is the roundabout thing btw?!!)

There was a thread ages ago where an Irish women with a mixed race child living in Ireland was explaining she’s teaching her child not to see the comments as racism because it’s not intended - she thought it was good to gaslight her own child. But she herself didn’t recognise that even unintentional racism will harm her child.

And specifically about that racist incident with the young lads and the Asian lady, I know that area well. There are hordes of kids that hang around there and start on innocent passersby. They were going to start shit with her no matter what race she was, that's what they do. They know that there are no consequences.

Now, I'm not saying it wasn't racist - it clearly was - but it's not unusual in that area.

And I think when other people have to come to a country, the people in that country think that they have the power now.

I was talking to a taxi driver in Ireland, and he said that "the poles were coming over here taking all our jobs", and I said "but the Irish went everywhere, they went to England, they went to America". But he still didn't like the Polish being here.

When people have to come to a country to earn money, the people in that country can abuse their power over people. This has happened in England over Irish people, and now it is happening in Ireland over Polish people.

I wish that humans would just see each other as humans.

Not: Polish, Irish, English, American etc.

We are humans.

@SionnachRua yes some of the teenage boys In Dublin can be so scary. The only time teenage boys ever really scared me was in Dublin.

I passed a group of teenage boys in Dublin city centre, and one of them started shouting at me about my breasts, and all that he would like to do them. I turned and said to one of them "your mother must be so proud of you".

I wouldn't do that now! I was thinking of them as teenage boys, but no, I know now that some of them are very hardened and cruel, and it is best to walk past and say nothing back.

Anyway he couldn't bear that I had answered him back in front of the lads, so he let me walk off, and then he ran after me, and robbed my bag from me. A bad day :(

The best thing would be if Ireland learns from history.

The English in the 60s weren’t fundamentally different awful people. They were normal people reacting to a perceived threat.

Until that is recognised and accepted; as long as Ireland clings to the idea ‘the English’ then were ‘other’ or intrinsically bad people, they are doomed to repeat the same in Ireland.

Ireland has an advantage. Early non white migrants were well educated and wealthy. It’s only more recently they have experienced immigrants with real social issues.

But the determination to ‘other’ each case demonstrates an unwillingness to accept that as a collective the country is deeply racist.

@Howallergic

So you were beaten at school and you attribute that to you having an English father?

This is an example.

A middle class white Irish teacher in a nice area bullied two primary school children because of their English heritage.

And Howallergic doesn’t believe me.

After all, how can I prove it’s not because we weren’t just little brats? Ask any black person growing up in Ireland if they have experienced racism from teachers. And employers. And shops. And restaurants.

And when they tell you they have, believe them. Even if they can’t prove it.

That’s my point.

“Oh but nice Ms Folan can’t be a racist. Sure she’s a lovely woman. She’d never do that to small helpless child.”

I agree that Ireland is deeply racist. I moved back here a year ago, but I am already planning to leave. I work remotely so thankfully can do it from anywhere.

I am white and Irish, although fromhaving worked all over the world, I see myself as from the world, not just from one country. and I can't stand the racism in Ireland, to other people. I have worked all over the world, so I am used to everyone.

When I came back to Ireland, -Polish people, black people, and Pakistani people were all telling me that they are being treated so terribly and like sub humans in Ireland, I honestly can't bear to live here.

@SionnachRua

And specifically about that racist incident with the young lads and the Asian lady, I know that area well. There are hordes of kids that hang around there and start on innocent passersby. They were going to start shit with her no matter what race she was, that's what they do. They know that there are no consequences.

Now, I'm not saying it wasn't racist - it clearly was - but it's not unusual in that area.

This is minimising.

On that particular day, that particular woman was selected. From among many others who were white. So actually she was less likely to get shit if she was white.

But making excuses like this is exactly what used to happen here. It’s racist, but....

It’s the reason there is a charge of assault and there if a charge of racially aggravated assault here and one carries a harsher penalty.

That women was targeted because she was Asian.

@Sarahpaula

I agree that Ireland is deeply racist. I moved back here a year ago, but I am already planning to leave. I work remotely so thankfully can do it from anywhere.

I am white and Irish, although fromhaving worked all over the world, I see myself as from the world, not just from one country. and I can't stand the racism in Ireland, to other people. I have worked all over the world, so I am used to everyone.

When I came back to Ireland, -Polish people, black people, and Pakistani people were all telling me that they are being treated so terribly and like sub humans in Ireland, I honestly can't bear to live here.

Same here. I wish it wasn’t so but what is it they say? Once you see it you can’t unsee it.

Most frustrating is how blind the indigenous population is.

Though I found similar in Australia. Not as overt. But it was there.

It’s the kids I feel for. Adults can understand at least. But the theatre production I described earlier was just tragic. The black and Asian kids looked uncomfortable. But you could see they didn’t quite know what was wrong with it. Too young to articulate why they felt ‘less than’.

I emailed the theatre afterwards. It was choreographed by the headmaster of a local school. Nobody else had complained and they were very surprised I was accusing them of racism because it was a ‘celebration of diversity’.

They didn’t get it. I found it profoundly depressing.

@MMN123 could you possibly say again about the theatre production? I missed where you said that, and scrolling back on the thread I can't find it. Thank you

@sarahpaula
Barbados next??!
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/barbados-remote-working-welcome-stamp-visa-applications-open-caribbean-a9636036.html%3famp

It’s frustrating because Ireland has the opportunity to be better. There is no excuse. Half the population have lived abroad and then moved back. There is a vast literature on the history of racism and immigrant integration in many other countries.

Yet my old friend the HR advisors thinks it isn’t racist to ‘look after your own first’ when deciding who to buy the Big Issue from. There is no excuse for that. None. You could just about say that ignorance was a contributing factor in 1950’s Britain. But not today. Yet it’s endemic in Ireland and it’s incredibly sad. They could be a shining light but they’re too busy shouting about how they aren’t racists like the English!

@MMN123 yes I saw that about Barbados!! Wouldn't it be lovely! I am looking into it. I am so, so happy that we are moving more into remote working, and more of us will be able to see the beautiful places in the world.

[quote Sarahpaula]@MMN123 could you possibly say again about the theatre production? I missed where you said that, and scrolling back on the thread I can't find it. Thank you[/quote]
They probably deleted it! Someone keeps reporting my posts when I say the Irish are behind on race relations.

I went to a local theatre production. Kids from local schools. Celebrating multiculturalism.

They lined the kids up on stage by skin tone. White fair haired through to dark black. Singing songs.

The finale was all the black and Asian kids standing around on stage and then as “we are the world” played, a white child walked to each black and Asian child and put a hand in their shoulder and sang the song while the black children stood in silence. Looking uncomfortable. And confused.

It was awful. Twilight zone moment. Everyone around me thought it was lovely. Weren’t they just gorgeous with their plaits.

I wanted to gather up the kids and find the nearest child psychologist to help them undo that.

Those kids will be adults now. I hope they speak out. It was an awful thing to see. And the fact the school headmaster choreographed it just finished me off!

That was my last trip to Ireland.

[quote Sarahpaula]@MMN123 yes I saw that about Barbados!! Wouldn't it be lovely! I am looking into it. I am so, so happy that we are moving more into remote working, and more of us will be able to see the beautiful places in the world.[/quote]
Haha! My employer sent out an email saying nobody is allowed to work from home abroad!

Apparently there are ‘insurance and legal issues’ (there aren’t, lol!)

Great poem here
www.radiokerry.ie/killarney-woman-describes-experiences-racism-growing-kerry/

This woman might well have been on that stage. It was in her county and she would have been a child then.

Do you not think it's strange to condemn a country new to multiculturalism for having problems with racism when countries such as the UK and the US still have massive issues with it despite having had many generations in which to do so.
Ireland has its problems with racism, absolutely but people in glass houses...