What constitutes to someone being Irish?

[Cybercubed]

Born there? Parents from there? Grandparents from there?

I'm born and raised in England, my parents are both Irish (mum from Belfast Dad from the ROI). In England whilst growing up people routinely called me Irish and so that's how I saw myself. Then I moved to Northern Ireland as teenager and had a reality check, because then everyone started calling me English. I still have an English accent so everyone still refers me to as an English person here. I've always understandably have a bit of an identity crisis therefore, compounded by the fact that the "British vs Irish" issue is right of the forefront of Northern Ireland politics as well I don't feel I fit in with either community here.

We've all heard of the term 'plastic paddy' which usually gets thrown at anyone with a non Irish accent calling themselves Irish. I personally don't really identify as anything more and feel kinda stateless but do you think calling yourself Irish should be reserved for those who are born and/or raised there only?

The whole ‘the next village are totally different to us’ - I’ve only seen this done in jest! Never seriously. And that’s common. I see it in my mom’s country too not just Ireland.

Though Ireland does have an issue around race. There’s been no real inward immigration till recent decades and thus no national conversation about race - there didn’t need to be until now I guess. I hope it is improving as the years go on, but phew, living in Ireland as a non-White person was a lot sometimes!

[quote JaneJeffer]@MMN123 you do experience some strange things.[/quote]
It was certainly strange. Like being in the twilight zone. I could hear the women seated behind me commenting on how gorgeous all the lovely little black girls were with their little plaits. Nobody thought it was racist.

But the black Irish are starting to speak out. The children who experienced this will no doubt recount it one day.

@workhomesleeprepeat

The whole ‘the next village are totally different to us’ - I’ve only seen this done in jest! Never seriously. And that’s common. I see it in my mom’s country too not just Ireland.

Though Ireland does have an issue around race. There’s been no real inward immigration till recent decades and thus no national conversation about race - there didn’t need to be until now I guess. I hope it is improving as the years go on, but phew, living in Ireland as a non-White person was a lot sometimes!

I agree you have the same next village phenomenon in every country - but what’s concerning about Ireland and race is that the people are so determined that there is no racism in Ireland - and they believe their own narrative so they don’t perceive anything less than people shouting racist obscenities at black people as racist!

It’s going to take a long, long time. I don’t envy those raising mixed race children there. It’s so far behind other countries it’s hard to imagine how they will ever catch up.

@workhomesleeprepeat I couldn't agree with you more!!!

@PainintheholeSIL it definitely toughened me up and gave me a very quick tongue I can tell you that much

@MMN123 thing is - I do understand why Irish people don't think its a racist, or intentionally racist place. Compared to other 'white' countries, there is no history of explicit white supremacy like the KKK, or far right politics like the National Front etc. Ireland was colonised and for a time Irish people were in indentured servitude in different parts of the world (though importantly, not enslaved like Africans) - so I can see why people in Ireland feel that the Irish as a people were also heavily discriminated against - because they were. I think that really contributes to the current attitudes that exist.

Saying that, I had some very hard experiences with racism in Ireland, and I do hope that a national conversation of sorts can happen. Its very hard when people are quite happy to say racist things, but be very hurt and offended when you tell them they are using racist language - even when I tried to do it with patience and sensitivity.

We really need to get to a stage where we see that there is no such thing as nationality.

Telling people that they were from one country, was a tool used to control and divide people.

@Sarahpaula I would love that! Would make my life a lot easier if I didn’t need visas 😅 Unfortunately I think the world is a long way off than that.

And culture and race is not necessarily about nationhood. Lots to unpick there.

@banivani

It rings very false to tell other people to get over historical trauma without dealing with your own.

I raised the topic of WW2 to highlight to some of the posters on this thread that not only Ireland suffers. Not as an excuse to have a moan. You've clearly not read the thread.

@workhomesleeprepeat
That’s exactly it - the country never adapted at any scale to incoming migrants. Those who left continued to believe they could one day move back and it would be the same - and it was. So while many lived for a period among others of different nationalities and ethnicities it was often not for very long and with a view to one day going ‘home’.

But people in Ireland don’t believe they are at the very, very start of that journey as a country now. They just don’t believe it. They think they are incredibly liberal and accepting and not all all like England and America - the evil of racism only exists somewhere else or in isolated cases of someone screaming abuse in the street! But most racism in most places isn’t intentional.

So the country has a massive problem. Because most of the Irish population is unintentionally racist all the time. And the rest are intentionally racist.

It must have been hard for you.

For those on the thread who haven’t lived in Ireland, an example I have is a discussion I had with an old friend of mine from my school days who now works in HR in Ireland. Should be very clued up - one would think. The subject of racism came up. As an example of progress, she said the town is very mixed now and that’s great and you even see the foreigners out selling the Big Issue and that’s a great sign they’re really settled in to the community because nobody gives them any hassle ‘any more’. Goodness knows what used to happen. And then her follow up comment finished me off. She said “Of course I only buy it off the Irish lads, because you have you look after your own first”.

HR advisor in a massive US owned company.

Interesting times ahead.

Nearly EVERY country in Europe was invaded. Why don't Irish people care about how Poland was invaded, millions of people killed there etc.
Let's say all the houses on your street get vandalised including yours. Which one are you going to care about most?

@JaneJeffer

The comparison more relates to having your whole street burgled, yet you are the only one to moan to the other houses about being burgled...

Oh really so you wouldn't care if your house got invaded @Wolfgirrl. How selfless you are!

Also that is a very narrow minded, selfish attitude. To not care about the suffering of someone else because they lived on a different patch of soil to you is absurd.

Of course you care about others. Irish people donate more money internationally in times of crisis than any other country.

@JaneJeffer

Sigh

worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-charitable-countries

Ireland scores well for giving, but comes 5th and the UK 7th. People in the UK are more likely to donate money to charity, Irish people are more likely to help a stranger etc which bumps the score up.

You really need to stop making things up without checking first.

*gets

I meant in Europe @Wolfgirrl but well done for posting some actual facts for a change.

I'd be pretty fed up if that happened too @Sarahpaula

@Sarahpaula I do think the nastiness towards people with English accents in Ireland is quite sad. It doesn't happen all the time everywhere - not at all - but its just so unecessary. The worst thing is that I've seen it affect English people who actually have Irish heritage.

My partner is very much James from Derry girls - raised in England with Irish parents, spent every summer in Ireland, and doesn't have great memories. He got bullied a lot. Kids can be cruel.

When I was still living in Ireland worked with a guy in the pub who was born in Dublin but had moved to London as a child, then back to Dublin when he finished his A levels. He did really like being back, but admitted to me that he found the stick he was given over his English accent really difficult. But also said he felt he couldn't say anything in case people thought he couldn't take a bit of 'jibing'.

Also had a colleague who was over in Dublin for a wedding and had asked me for some pub recommendations to watch some world cup football - I suggested a couple of places - all nice places! He told me when he got back to work that guys in the pub had heckled/taunted them for being English constantly throughout the match. I was so so embarrassed tbh.

@JaneJeffer

Nearly EVERY country in Europe was invaded. Why don't Irish people care about how Poland was invaded, millions of people killed there etc. Let's say all the houses on your street get vandalised including yours. Which one are you going to care about most?

Which do you expect your neighbours to care about?

Would you be surprised if they become yawn about you banging on about how the damage to your yellow stone cladding was so much more traumatic for you then their red brick being vandalised?!

@Sarahpaula
Sorry about your cousin. It was and probably still is bloody awful. Seen other kids with English parents being treated appallingly. Welsh and Scottish less so.

Friendly country my arse!