What constitutes to someone being Irish?

[Cybercubed]

Born there? Parents from there? Grandparents from there?

I'm born and raised in England, my parents are both Irish (mum from Belfast Dad from the ROI). In England whilst growing up people routinely called me Irish and so that's how I saw myself. Then I moved to Northern Ireland as teenager and had a reality check, because then everyone started calling me English. I still have an English accent so everyone still refers me to as an English person here. I've always understandably have a bit of an identity crisis therefore, compounded by the fact that the "British vs Irish" issue is right of the forefront of Northern Ireland politics as well I don't feel I fit in with either community here.

We've all heard of the term 'plastic paddy' which usually gets thrown at anyone with a non Irish accent calling themselves Irish. I personally don't really identify as anything more and feel kinda stateless but do you think calling yourself Irish should be reserved for those who are born and/or raised there only?

Although I don't dispute some of the experiences people have mentioned above, however I just want to say I moved to Northern Ireland aged 14, went to an integrated school and never had any problems for my English accent.

I lived here for 20 years and most people don't even inquire about my accent, notice it or even ask where I'm originally from. Nobody cares.

Amazing how it's suddenly so desirable to be Irish - now that there's a passport in it...

@Cybercubed do you think it could be because you were in NI as opposed to the Republic? I have friends who went to integrated schools in NI and they speak highly of them and their inclusivity.

Am glad you haven't had the same experiences as I and others experienced! Just to be clear, I on the whole enjoyed living in Ireland and enjoy visiting, just wish I didn't have the experiences I had.

Oops did I say something wrong?!

Oh well!

Very true @Thisismytimetoshine - I’m entitled to both a UK and Irish passport. I originally got a UK one when I was young because it was cheaper and I had no money - but given my views on the country I have not got one now either despite Brexit. Whereas many others I know with very negative memories of growing up there have rushed to secure them.

Out of interest, does anyone on the thread remember the “Abarti agus Asti” book of short stories?

@workhomesleeprepeat

Well people from nationalist backgrounds in Northern Ireland are almost certainly going to have more grievances towards Britain and the British state that people from the Republic are, given they were experiencing discrimination in employment and housing only up until recently, they were the ones seeing British troops marching the streets and being occasionally subject to harassment from the RUC, they were ones subjected to sectarian murders from loyalist paramilitaries etc.

But I do think going to an integrated school certainly helped as a lot of the kids would come from middle class backgrounds and so the politics at home for some of these kids would've been less bigoted than kids from some other homes.

Tbh I actually had much more abuse for my Irish background in England than for having an English accent in Ireland. I know that's not the norm and more likely to be the other way around, but that's just my experiences.

I'm confident I could move into West Belfast or the Falls area and no one would give a shit. My main problem with these areas though would be the amount deprivation and thus potentially fall victim to crime, my accent would the least of my concerns.

Obviously its sad to read others have had negative experiences of having an English accent here so maybe I got lucky. However I don't advertise my 'Englishness' much i.e. walk around in England shirts or come across as nationalistic in anyway (because I generally don't identify as British or English anyway).

When my father passed away, we had the local priest come to our door literally and I answered it and soon as he heard my accent he panicked and said 'oh sorry wrong door, my mistake!' just solely on my accent, I had tell him he was at the right door. People make judgements about me like that I guess but nothing major. In the typically divided society we live in here, lot of people in Northern Ireland often incorrectly make assumptions I'm from a protestant or unionist background without even asking and that can be frustrating.

Tbh I actually had much more abuse for my Irish background in England than for having an English accent in Ireland. I know that's not the norm and more likely to be the other way around, but that's just my experiences.

Your experience would be very common. I lived in the UK in the 80's and, while on the whole, I enjoyed it, I did experience a lot of anti-Irish bigotry. I have English friends living in Ireland who have never experienced any issues.

I imagine class plays into this in both countries. In the U.K. I socialise with people who tend to be wealthier and better educated than the people in the area where I grew up and my Irish family. So I see more anti English sentiment there than anti Irish sentiment here. In fact I think I’m probably more negative about Ireland than anyone I know here. Most are neutral or know little about Ireland.

But I expect there is variation within Ireland in the same way - my own extended Irish family were never overtly anti English, possibly because of my father, but when I started spending time with the families of close friends or boyfriends it was then I really saw the uglier side of the Irish - some were full on anti-English anything, for no particular reason. But would smile and be friendly to English people living locally and then bad mouth them seconds later. Made me realise the rare overt anti English sentiment I had seen publicly was just the tip of the iceberg. It really put me off the place!

My step family are from the Welsh valleys, and they were the same. They made endless 'English' jokes, mocked our accents etc but the second we did it back they would get so angry and offended!

What I couldnt get over is the sheer amount they obsessed over their nationality, talked about being Welsh, had the Wales flag on nearly everything they possessed, it was always the first thing they brought up in conversation with a new person. It was like their whole identity depended on it, like they couldn't just exist as their own person without the Welshness. But half of them have moved to England 🤦‍♀️😂

The English just arent like that, we don't feel the need to talk about it all the time or have it ingrained as part of our identity. But then I have been told we are quite hard to get to know so maybe it is just we dont over share in general.

@Wolfgirrl
Yes the Welsh valleys is probably the nearest I’ve seen to it outside Ireland.

Even the Devon and Cornwall folk are less antagonistic to Londoners by comparison! Lol!

Annnnnd I have had the predictable reply about the irish being oppressed, having their culture and language stomped on, it's not the same etc 😂😂

I don't get the joke.

What has that got to do with this thread @Wolfgirrl ?

The joke being even somebody wanting to use an irish name (which in my book is quite flattering & lovely) invokes the usual 'but we were invaded' stuff.

It's not a great joke.

@JaneJeffer

It is a good example of what we were saying about nearly every comment an English person makes about Ireland/Irishness (even if positive or flattering) invokes the usual historical neuroses.

[quote Wolfgirrl]@JaneJeffer

It is a good example of what we were saying about nearly every comment an English person makes about Ireland/Irishness (even if positive or flattering) invokes the usual historical neuroses.[/quote]
This is pure nonsense, Wolfgirrl
Knock it off.

@Thisismytimetoshine

How is it nonsense? I thought it was a good example of the point we were trying to make 🤷‍♀️

Because it's not remotely true? It may have been a good example if it were actually the case, but it really isn't .

It is a good example of what we were saying about nearly every comment an English person makes about Ireland/Irishness (even if positive or flattering) invokes the usual historical neuroses.

The reply you received on the other thread just pointed out the historical context; nobody on that thread was sensitive about using an Irish name.

If anything, it is you that is sensitive in accepting the history of British imperial policy and you have continually ignored historical fact and responded with individual anecdotes which suit your narrative.

But why was the historical stuff needed? Why not just say you're flattered OP wants to use an Irish name, they obviously have good taste then suggest a few she may not have heard of?

I accept all British history, the good and the bad. Name one comment I have made where I have tried to kick British wrongdoing into the long grass, or minimize it.

For example (and this will probably stun you), have you noticed I have not commented on the Troubles at all, not once, in this entire thread?

For one, I didn't reply to that thread because people can call their children anything they want but the fact that you think I, as an Irish person,
should be flattered that an English person wants to use an Irish name confirms the superiority that you have expressed throughout this thread.