What constitutes to someone being Irish?

[Cybercubed]

Born there? Parents from there? Grandparents from there?

I'm born and raised in England, my parents are both Irish (mum from Belfast Dad from the ROI). In England whilst growing up people routinely called me Irish and so that's how I saw myself. Then I moved to Northern Ireland as teenager and had a reality check, because then everyone started calling me English. I still have an English accent so everyone still refers me to as an English person here. I've always understandably have a bit of an identity crisis therefore, compounded by the fact that the "British vs Irish" issue is right of the forefront of Northern Ireland politics as well I don't feel I fit in with either community here.

We've all heard of the term 'plastic paddy' which usually gets thrown at anyone with a non Irish accent calling themselves Irish. I personally don't really identify as anything more and feel kinda stateless but do you think calling yourself Irish should be reserved for those who are born and/or raised there only?

Again, what has this got to do with British policy in Ireland

Invasion. I was asking which invasion and how was it different to invasions of England. How was the rest of tour post different to Enlgiah experiences

I'm sure his life was pretty grim.

It was and some of that coal chewed by the English heated Irish homes, cheaply

Please point out where I referred to any individual as being responsible for the famine? I have repeatedly referred to British policy.

But that policy affected the British people too

My reference re the famine was to an earlier post in the thread, just before wolf was piled on, and she was piled on

@Wolfgirrl do you not think that it's a shared history?

Hewed coal, not chewed

In early-19th-century Britain very few people had the right to vote. A survey conducted in 1780 revealed that the electorate in England and Wales consisted of just 214,000 people - less than 3% of the total population of approximately 8 million. In Scotland the electorate was even smaller: in 1831 a mere 4,500 men, out of a population of more than 2.6 million people, were entitled to vote in parliamentary elections. Large industrial cities like Leeds, Birmingham and Manchester did not have a single MP between them, whereas 'rotten boroughs' such as Dunwich in Suffolk (which had a population of 32 in 1831) were still sending two MPs to Westminster. The British electoral system was unrepresentative and outdated.

Around 97% of the English did not vote for the government that mishandled the famine because they did not have a vote. So why must we learn about it, 'educate' ourselves and acknowledge the wrongs of 'our' past? What has the famine got to do with the English public?

In the 60s were there English people denied jobs and a vote by the Danes?
Because there were Irish Catholics in Northern Ireland who couldn't access jobs because of their religion. Because of discrimination Catholics were poorer, there for were less likely to be rate payers which meant they didn't have a vote.
Can you see why some Irish people don't feel that British oppression is so far in the past.

@Elasticate

Why? What is the difference?

Around 97% of the English did not vote for the government
And what about the rest of the Union?

How was the rest of tour post different to Enlgiah experiences

The English experience is irrelevant to a discussion on British policy in Ireland. The Indian experience is also irrelevant, as are the experiences of other victims of British imperialism. That doesn't mean there aren't commonalities in the experiences.

[quote Wolfgirrl]@Elasticate

And if we hadn't been invaded by Denmark, our language and culture would still be here & our history would be different.

Should we hate the Danes and hold a grudge to this day? And if not, why not?[/quote]
This is the piece I am referring to.

why are we obligated to learn about it all?

I'll refer you again to the Act of Union. During the famine, the UK included all of Ireland. It is British history, happened to British citizens.

And why do the Irish constantly bring it up?

Why do British people constantly bring up WW2?

@JaneJeffer

If you read the extract it accounts for Scotland. I cant imagine Wales fared much better either.

And what do you mean shared history?

And what do you mean shared history?
I mean it's British history as well.

Why? What is the difference?

For starters, direct rule.

chonAgusOchon
@Flaxmeadow - Again, you are trying to justify atrocities against the Irish by the fact that similar acts were committed against your own people. What was done in the UK does not mitigate what was done elsewhere. If you can't see that, there's not really much I can say to you

Shinygoldbauble
Why do you want us to acknowledge that the English ruling class oppressed their own people? Does it somehow make what they did to the Irish (and many other peoples) ok

For context, for comparison and who is "they". You talk as if the labouring masses in both countries had nothing in common with each other. That there was no common ground. The "they" wasn't about nationality or even religion, it was about class

History is brutal. The masses lived short brutal lives in every part of the world Theybruled over by a tiny elite, and yes even an Irish Catholic elite in some instances. It didn't matter to a coal miner in Barnsley, England or an agricultural labourer in Mayo, Ireland who was in charge. They still had no say in it.

Everyday people did not spend hours agonising over Henry II or the act of union or whatever. They cared about their family, the daily grind, getting on with their neighbours day to day, of whatever background.

@Shinygoldbauble I am a Catholic of Irish descent! So my ancestors wouldve been denied jobs too, and oppressed by the English government! Worse, during the reformation English Catholics were hunted down and tortured to death, while the churches were burned to the ground! It was illegal to be a Catholic! The difference is that we don't harp on about it. It is gone and in the past. I don't have a grudge against C of E people, in fact I'm marrying one next year!

Honestly, you really do think you're the only ones to have ever suffered 🙄 let go of the bitterness, you will feel better for it.

I'm not bitter at all but thanks for the advice.
My question was merely asking can you not see why the situation is very different from your Denmark example due to the very recent nature of events.

@Wolfgirrl and @ you seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that Irish people spend the majority wtheir existence

...thinking about the past.

@JaneJeffer this thread is proving they do.

@Shinygoldbauble ohhh so now we are judging the impact of events according to how recent they are? Because a PP swore that the impact of the famine on Ireland is greater to this day than the effects of WW2 on the UK... maybe have a word with them

@Wolfgirrl We are when the events of the past are in living memory of a lot of people.

@Shinygoldbauble

Seriously, the famine is in people's memories? I've heard it all now!

No, Northern Ireland. Are you being deliberately awkward? I never mentioned the Famine at all.

It was illegal to be a Catholic

It wasn't so much illegal, it was more that there was a compulsion to attend a CofE mass. If you did not attend, once a month, you could be fined, at an amount you could pay. These people were Catholic recusants

Ordinary Joe Bloggs Catholics were tolerated. But the problem was that a country like Spain, a rival and sometimes enemy of England was staunchly Catholic and so if someone in a position of power, a powerful North of England landowner for example, was a Catholic then they were a risk to national security because they could, and sometimes did, conspire with a Catholic enemy. They might be able to raise a sympathetic Catholic leaning local armed force. So they had to be made an example

@Shinygoldbauble

Dwell on things all you like. But I will not be made to feel implicated or responsible for the actions of a government I never voted for, at a time when I wasnt even alive, under the guise of 'educating' myself in order to 'acknowledge' it.

Ok. You do that then.
And I'll continue to believe that comparing the Danish invasion of England 1000 years ago to the situation in Ireland/Northern Ireland over the past 100 years or so is the ludicrous argument of some who who just enjoys a good row.
Goodnight.