What constitutes to someone being Irish?

[Cybercubed]

Born there? Parents from there? Grandparents from there?

I'm born and raised in England, my parents are both Irish (mum from Belfast Dad from the ROI). In England whilst growing up people routinely called me Irish and so that's how I saw myself. Then I moved to Northern Ireland as teenager and had a reality check, because then everyone started calling me English. I still have an English accent so everyone still refers me to as an English person here. I've always understandably have a bit of an identity crisis therefore, compounded by the fact that the "British vs Irish" issue is right of the forefront of Northern Ireland politics as well I don't feel I fit in with either community here.

We've all heard of the term 'plastic paddy' which usually gets thrown at anyone with a non Irish accent calling themselves Irish. I personally don't really identify as anything more and feel kinda stateless but do you think calling yourself Irish should be reserved for those who are born and/or raised there only?

@Flaxmeadow - Again, you are trying to justify atrocities against the Irish by the fact that similar acts were committed against your own people. What was done in the UK does not mitigate what was done elsewhere. If you can't see that, there's not really much I can say to you.

Why do you want us to acknowledge that the English ruling class oppressed their own people? Does it somehow make what they did to the Irish (and many other peoples) ok?

What the British did in their own country has nothing to do with us.

Then why is what the British government (which you acknowledge the majority of English couldnt even vote for) did in Ireland have anything to do with us?

The discussion moved on to historical mistreatment of the Irish by the British

And you think the British, the descendants of the working class, will just roll over and accept that? Grovel for something for things neither they or their ancestors were responsible for?

Don't dish out unfounded accusations if you don't want a history discussion back

@Flaxmeadow - The normans became "more Irish than the Irish themselves". The plantations were the start of the policy of annihilation of the native Irish.

What do you want to be?
That’s who you are.
Fuck what others think.
Don’t try and define yourself in that way - you will never live up to others’ expectations.
Be who your want to be. X

Flaxmeadow and Wolfgirl, don't you understand that before the poor treatment of Ireland came the invasion of the country?

You seem to think that the Irish have no cause for complaint because the English working class were treated badly too by the same government. If Britain hadn't invaded the country, Ireland could have made its own decisions. What don't you understand about that?

I must have missed the part where people were asked to grovel.

I have an Irish father, but my cousins in Cork sneer at the idea that I may think of myself as part Irish. Generally the attitude from my Irish relations is that if you don't have an Irish accent from living in Ireland all or most of your life there's no way you can call yourself Irish.

And I don't really care either way, it's not like there's a huge culture difference between the UK and Ireland anyway, unless you bring religion into it.

The normans became "more Irish than the Irish themselves". The plantations were the start of the policy of annihilation of the native Irish

Join the club. You think they didn't annihilate the English, 1069 was not pic jic for the north of England. The acts of Enclosure, which lasted a thousand years weren't either. The lock outs and evictions of English coal miners

What do you think life was like for an English coal miner and his family, women and children who also laboured in the bowels in the earth, in the 1840s? Was he to blame for the famine?

My parents are not, but I was born there and raised there until I went to uni at 18.
I would say I’m Irish.
I would call you English.

you keep insisting we 'learn' about our history and 'acknowledge the past' like it was our fault!
Why would knowing history and acknowledging the past make anything your fault. You're taking it far too personally. If my ancestors did something wrong I could accept that without feeling I was being blamed for something they did.

@Elasticate

And if we hadn't been invaded by Denmark, our language and culture would still be here & our history would be different.

Should we hate the Danes and hold a grudge to this day? And if not, why not?

Was he to blame for the famine?
You're being ridiculous now.

Grovel for something for things neither they or their ancestors were responsible for?

Nobody has asked anyone to grovel.

Don't dish out unfounded accusations if you don't want a history discussion back

Really? What was unfounded in any of my posts? Are you suggesting the plantations didn't occur? Or that the penal laws weren't enacted in Ireland? Or that British policies didn't lead to multiple famines in Ireland? Or bloody Sundays did not occur? Or the black and tans never came to Ireland? These are not unfounded accusations but are historical fact.

@JaneJeffer

So why use the word 'You' instead of 'they', why use the word 'Britain' rather than British government, and why the constant insistence that Ireland's suffering is superior to that of anyone else?

And if we are not to blame, why are we obligated to learn about it all? And why do the Irish constantly bring it up?

And I don't really care either way, it's not like there's a huge culture difference between the UK and Ireland anyway, unless you bring religion into it

This is a really good point, and one I mentioned earlier in the thread. Irish and English culture isn't much different and never was. Even religion wasnt that different. There was such a thing as an Irish Methodist or other Nonconformist, or an English Catholic. Infact there were more English Catholics than Irish Catholics and still are

We have more in common than divides us historically, especially in rural areas, where folk traditions survived. The divides we see now are more recent. There were times in the past when the everyday Irish, English, Weslh, Scots united for common causes. Trade unionism or chartism for example

So why use the word 'You' instead of 'they', why use the word 'Britain' rather than British government, and why the constant insistence that Ireland's suffering is superior to that of anyone else?
I haven't done any of those things.

You're being ridiculous now

No I'm not because earlier in the thread this was the accusation. That our British, or English, ancestors caused the famine. The words "your ancestors" was actually used

Join the club. You think they didn't annihilate the English, 1069 was not pic jic for the north of England. The acts of Enclosure, which lasted a thousand years weren't either. The lock outs and evictions of English coal miners

Again, what has this got to do with British policy in Ireland?

What do you think life was like for an English coal miner and his family, women and children who also laboured in the bowels in the earth, in the 1840s? Was he to blame for the famine?

I'm sure his life was pretty grim.

Please point out where I referred to any individual as being responsible for the famine? I have repeatedly referred to British policy.

What was unfounded in any of my posts

Your answer. You suggested events that only the Irish had experienced. My reply was that the English had experienced those things too

The words "your ancestors" was actually used
And you took that to mean you personally?

Your answer. You suggested events that only the Irish had experienced. My reply was that the English had experienced those things too

No I didn't. I stated what the British had done in Ireland. I never stated they had not treated others deplorably too. However, the appalling treatment is not limited to Irish or English people. If we were to discuss all who suffered under British imperialism we would be here for a very long time.

@Wolfgirrl

You're not comparing like with like.