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Original poster

What constitutes to someone being Irish?

999 replies

Cybercubed · 18/08/2020 23:58

Born there? Parents from there? Grandparents from there?

I'm born and raised in England, my parents are both Irish (mum from Belfast Dad from the ROI). In England whilst growing up people routinely called me Irish and so that's how I saw myself. Then I moved to Northern Ireland as teenager and had a reality check, because then everyone started calling me English. I still have an English accent so everyone still refers me to as an English person here. I've always understandably have a bit of an identity crisis therefore, compounded by the fact that the "British vs Irish" issue is right of the forefront of Northern Ireland politics as well I don't feel I fit in with either community here.

We've all heard of the term 'plastic paddy' which usually gets thrown at anyone with a non Irish accent calling themselves Irish. I personally don't really identify as anything more and feel kinda stateless but do you think calling yourself Irish should be reserved for those who are born and/or raised there only?

OP posts:
Flaxmeadow · 22/08/2020 23:22

Because there were Irish Catholics in Northern Ireland who couldn't access jobs because of their religion. Because of discrimination Catholics were poorer, there for were less likely to be rate payers which meant they didn't have a vote.

But this was more to do with industrialisation. That the north industrialised and that many in those jobs were more likely to have been local Protestants who would pass those trades and jobs onto their sons. If someone migrated there, from a more rural Ireland, then their family were not included in that industry by tradition. They didnt have the same skills.

It would have been the same in England in the 1960s. If agricultural labourers from Norfolk migrated into Manchester, they would struggle more to be employed in a cotton mill than someone local whose family had worked in those jobs for hundreds of years. Especially when industry was declining in the 60s and 70s

Wolfgirrl · 22/08/2020 23:23

@Shinygoldbauble

I'm not comparing the events. I'm comparing the apportion of blame and whether the descendants of the invaders (or people that happen to share their nationality) 'need' to learn about it and endlessly acknowledge it. I say they don't.

Elasticate · 22/08/2020 23:24

@Wolfgirrl honestly nobody on this thread blames individual British people for British imperial policy.

CayrolBaaaskin · 22/08/2020 23:25

I have some Irish ancestry from Northern Ireland prods who went to ni from Scotland during the plantation. I felt a bit bad about that but then someone pointed out that it’s likely that those people were descended from Irish people who invaded Scotland a few hundred years earlier.

The past is the past. It may not have been right but it’s finished now. Also it’s not anyone’s responsibility what someone else did whether that person was their ancestor or not. You are responsible for what you do, not what someone else does.

Elasticate · 22/08/2020 23:27

But this was more to do with industrialisation. That the north industrialised and that many in those jobs were more likely to have been local Protestants who would pass those trades and jobs onto their sons. If someone migrated there, from a more rural Ireland, then their family were not included in that industry by tradition. They didnt have the same skills.

Oh Christ, you really haven't a clue.

Howallergic · 22/08/2020 23:29

Well don't bloody educate yourself then Wolfgirl. But please stop harassing Irish posters on this blooming thread. We don't CARE about the English. We're Irish and care about Ireland and our history. We are sick listening to you! Go and have a lie down or something.

OchonAgusOchonO · 22/08/2020 23:30

But this was more to do with industrialisation. That the north industrialised and that many in those jobs were more likely to have been local Protestants who would pass those trades and jobs onto their sons. If someone migrated there, from a more rural Ireland, then their family were not included in that industry by tradition. They didnt have the same skills.

Not quite. Borders were gerrymandered to ensure protestant majorities. Houses wete allocated to protestants while catholics could not get housing.

Flaxmeadow · 22/08/2020 23:32

honestly nobody on this thread blames individual British people for British imperial policy

They did though. That's what gets people backs up. It's one thing to blame a government or civil servant like Trevelyan but it's the constant "you" or "your ancestors" that's irritating.

I knew an Irish man who used to offer to buy English people a drink and then spit in it when they weren't looking. Why? Because they were English, that was their only crime. It didn't matter to him that their ancestors had been working class labourers and probably starved or struggled themselves at some point. He blamed them anyway

He was eventually barred when people found out what he was doing. It was a pub in England BTW

Wolfgirrl · 22/08/2020 23:32

@Howallergic and we are English! Why should we care about the Irish history you keep banging on about all the time? 🙄

Shinygoldbauble · 22/08/2020 23:32

@Wolfgirrl It's not about blame or guilt but you said Irish people should get over complaining about events of the past.
At one point you referenced the Danish invasion. I agree that no-one should hold a grudge about events of 1000 years ago. My point is that the Irish/British situation is different because of the very recent nature of events. Things happened in living memory that rankle with and cause strong feelings on both sides.
It's too simplistic to say people should get over it and move on.

OchonAgusOchonO · 22/08/2020 23:33

I knew an Irish man who used to offer to buy English people a drink and then spit in it when they weren't looking.

You knew an asshole. Assholes know no borders.

Howallergic · 22/08/2020 23:34

Because this is a thread about Ireland, not fucking England. Jesus Christ.

Wolfgirrl · 22/08/2020 23:35

Irish people who invaded Scotland a few hundred years earlier.

Ooooh the plot thickens! Turns out the Irish are invaders too! Pot kettle! Let me guess though, the irish on here are still proud of their history, because they found invading another country very traumatising and for some reason it was actually all the fault of the English? Grin

Wolfgirrl · 22/08/2020 23:36

@Howallergic PP brought up England by whinging on about a famine 200 years ago.

Wolfgirrl · 22/08/2020 23:38

@OchonAgusOchonO interesting, if that was an English person spitting in Irish people's drinks it would be called prejudice or racism. The excuses you make are just never ending!

Howallergic · 22/08/2020 23:38

Wolfgirl, you're an utter disgrace and your disgusting bigotry against Irish people seeps from my screen. Please start your own thread about the Danes invading England as you keep fucking bleating on about it like some sort of demented ewe. You've ruined an interesting thread.

Wolfgirrl · 22/08/2020 23:39

@Shinygoldbauble

What does endlessly raking over the past achieve?

Howallergic · 22/08/2020 23:39

PP brought up England by whinging on about a famine 200 years ago.

1 million people starved to death under the Crown. I'll whinge as much as I fucking feel like for as long as I fucking feel like.

Shinygoldbauble · 22/08/2020 23:40

I'm proud to be Irish. I'm proud of many things in our history but not all of it. That's not possible. All countries have high points and low. That's why I love history and think it's important to know where we come from. There's no point hiding from the past. Real understanding and growth comes from acknowledging the good and the bad and learning from it.

Wolfgirrl · 22/08/2020 23:41

@Howallergic yep, so bigoted against my own heritage 🙄 and I 'ruined' the thread because I dared to stand up to yet another pity fest where the English are blamed for everything but expected to go along with it. Well, tough.

Sarahpaula · 22/08/2020 23:41

I just don't lnow why Ireland bangs on and on and on about being invaded. Every country has been invaded. Many countries were invaded, where atrocities were far worse that in Ireland.

Also to the people on here banging on about Northern Ireland. And all the awful things that the English did in N.Ireland.

I am from the rep. Of Ireland. I worked in N.Ireland for two years. You know what some catholic people said to me up there? They said "you guys down in the rep, of Ireland say on your arses and did nothing, while we were being killed up here".

You could say , "why didn't the rep. of Ireland do anything to help N.Ireland during the troubles"? Did we do much? No we did barely fuck all

Sarahpaula · 22/08/2020 23:43

*sat on your arses.

Also people in N. Ireland said to me that "people the republic of Ireland sold them out to the British".

The republic of Ireland barely did anything to help northern Ireland during the troubles

Howallergic · 22/08/2020 23:44

Why would we interfere in NI? It didn't belong to us anymore.

Unless you count the IRA of course - they tried didn't they? But NI/British didn't like them either.
FFS.

Jesus - op - JUST CLAIM YOU'RE NI. That's the closest to what you are.

Sarahpaula · 22/08/2020 23:45

@Howallergic lets talk about the Republic of Ireland did nothing to help Northern Ireland during the troubles.

Because I heard that from people in Northern Ireland when I was there.

Wolfgirrl · 22/08/2020 23:45

@Howallergic

Im a republican myself and want the UK to be a republic (which will probably stun you rigid).

But even I can see the Crown didnt deliberately starve them. That's just deliberately obfuscative language.

Anyway, keep up with the whinging. Nothing will happen, it will just cause the odd row when you try to guilt trip people over it.