What constitutes to someone being Irish?

[Cybercubed]

Born there? Parents from there? Grandparents from there?

I'm born and raised in England, my parents are both Irish (mum from Belfast Dad from the ROI). In England whilst growing up people routinely called me Irish and so that's how I saw myself. Then I moved to Northern Ireland as teenager and had a reality check, because then everyone started calling me English. I still have an English accent so everyone still refers me to as an English person here. I've always understandably have a bit of an identity crisis therefore, compounded by the fact that the "British vs Irish" issue is right of the forefront of Northern Ireland politics as well I don't feel I fit in with either community here.

We've all heard of the term 'plastic paddy' which usually gets thrown at anyone with a non Irish accent calling themselves Irish. I personally don't really identify as anything more and feel kinda stateless but do you think calling yourself Irish should be reserved for those who are born and/or raised there only?

@Howallergic

Because the Nazis had plans to invade Ireland!

Rather than organising it's own defence, Ireland just relied on the British doing it, knowing they would be protected by virtue of their location.

Yes Wolfgirrl

I was wondering when the 'Irish Slavery' myth would make an appearance. Very popular in the USA, where it started

What you get back when trying to discuss it, and expose it for the fakery that it is, is a load of links to conspiracy theory sites and again, amateur USA family tree websites

Irish historians, real Irish historians, have debunked the Irish Slaves myth over and over again but it still persists in quote memes

Lol - where on earth did you read that the Nazis had plans to invade Ireland?

@rayoflightboy

I will repeat myself the Nazis were going to invade Ireland.

It wouldnt be England that Ireland would be helping, it would be Ireland. Surely you cant be so churlish as to take the risk of being invaded rather than work as a team with a bunch of other countries, some you dont like?

But Ireland didnt help, they relied on the fact their proximity to the UK would mean the British would defend them.

@Howallergic operation sealion. Look it up.

Rather than organising it's own defence, Ireland just relied on the British doing it, knowing they would be protected by virtue of their location.

Given that we were under British rule at the time, I doubt we had much agency in what we did. Are you angry for Ireland remaining a neutral country?

Even if the Nazis had decided to invade Ireland, it would have been to obtain a back door to invade Britain. Britain was defending itself. Britain has never ever ever defended Ireland.

Given that we were under British rule at the time,

WTF !

nildesparandum

I think a lot of British people would consider someone British who is of partial Irish ancestry like yourself.

I'm not sure many Brits however would consider someone of FULL Irish descent like myself to be British.

Well a quarter of the country was owned by Britain and Ireland was only recently out from under British rule. They still ruled our parliament and senate with Brits. If you think we were completely out from under the thumb of England, you're wrong.

Operation Sea Lion, also written as Operation Sealion[2][3] (German: Unternehmen Seelöwe), was Nazi Germany's code name for the plan for an invasion of the United Kingdom during the Battle of Britain in the Second World War. Following the Fall of France, Adolf Hitler, the German Führer and Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces, hoped the British government would seek a peace agreement and he reluctantly considered invasion only as a last resort if all other options failed.

@Wolfgirrl

It says they where going to invade Great Britain.As it was the 2nd WW we where not part of Great Britain.

@rayoflightboy

Yes because the Nazis would have left Ireland, a highly fertile island without good defence and close proximity to the UK, well alone after invading the rest of it seriously? Anyway, apologies, the plan to invade ireland was operation green, a sub operation of sealion.

Germany could have misperceived us as being allied with Great Britain. Also, we were a handy target to hit the UK from.

Ireland, a highly fertile island

So you accept that a famine was impossible then wolfgirl?

I'm not sure many Brits however would consider someone of FULL Irish descent like myself to be British.

OP you were born and raised here, so most people would see you as British and that's what the law says. Whether you see yourself as having Irish identity is a different matter.

We were neutral and if IF GB defended us from some invasion it was in their own interests, not in the interests of the Irish.

@Howallergic

How 'neutral' can you really be when someone has plans to invade you? Dont be naive. Ireland just didnt want to pick the wrong side, so looked the other way, knowing its proximity to the UK would save it.

And no, Britain's objective was not saving it's own skin. Britain joined the war to assist Poland when it was invaded. The Nazis never wanted to fight the English, they considered the English a 'superior' bloodline (like themselves), due to our German and supposedly Scandinavian heritage. So England would have had a (relatively) softer treatment from the Nazis had it been invaded. But still, England chose to join the Allies.

I dont defend everything England does, far from it, but even you must admit that was an incredible thing to do?

Ireland just didnt want to pick the wrong side, so looked the other way, knowing its proximity to the UK would save it.

You know nothing about Irish people, do you? That's very insulting.

I'm Scottish from a 100% Irish background. Parents and grandparents born in Britain but all fully of Irish extraction. When people ask where I'm from, I say that I'm from Scotland, but if they probe any further, I offer my background pretty quickly, because it's quite relevant.

Interestingly, I've visited Ireland only once - and recently - and from the moment I set foot in the country, I felt at home. My accent changed and everything

@Howallergic

So it is okay to pick apart the British history and intentions, but when it comes to the Irish, we mustn't speculate or mention their failings? Because it is insulting?

Well a quarter of the country was owned by Britain and Ireland was only recently out from under British rule

And whose fault was that?

So it is okay to pick apart the British history

Yes because what we are picking apart actually happened.

Ireland just didnt want to pick the wrong side, so looked the other way, knowing its proximity to the UK would save it.
^^^
Thats your opinion.

I am not sure that this applies anywhere else in the UK, but people in the west of Scotland who are from an Irish(?) Catholic background have a slightly different accent. It's largely about the fact that we say "herr" instead of "hair". But I think it's relevant to note that in opposition to the reductive nature of the bald "I am English/Scottish/Irish". I always noticed in Glasgow that second and third generation Asian friends had a different accent, too. It's too simplistic to say that we're all just Scottish, because that is where we were born.

@rayoflightboy

And what has been written about Britain in this thread isnt speculation? Such as 'the British only help themselves' (proved wrong - went into WW2 to help Poland), 'the British deliberately killed everyone in the famine' (unproven. Famine caused by potato blight, no evidence of intention to kill), 'the British enslaved the Irish in the slave trade' (proven as a pure myth and 100% false).

None of that 'actually happened' did it? Whereas it is known Ireland did nothing to help with the war effort.

Goodness this thread has taken quite a turn.

What drama!