What constitutes to someone being Irish?

[Cybercubed]

Born there? Parents from there? Grandparents from there?

I'm born and raised in England, my parents are both Irish (mum from Belfast Dad from the ROI). In England whilst growing up people routinely called me Irish and so that's how I saw myself. Then I moved to Northern Ireland as teenager and had a reality check, because then everyone started calling me English. I still have an English accent so everyone still refers me to as an English person here. I've always understandably have a bit of an identity crisis therefore, compounded by the fact that the "British vs Irish" issue is right of the forefront of Northern Ireland politics as well I don't feel I fit in with either community here.

We've all heard of the term 'plastic paddy' which usually gets thrown at anyone with a non Irish accent calling themselves Irish. I personally don't really identify as anything more and feel kinda stateless but do you think calling yourself Irish should be reserved for those who are born and/or raised there only?

Wolfgirll do you have anything at all to back up the assertion that Ireland remained neutral because “they didn’t want to pick the wrong side”? Anything? Any academic article? Even an opinion piece?
Anyways I certainly don’t spend my time agonizing over what England did or did not do. I have many more heated arguments in pubs with republicans and those bearing grudges, being too focused on history, than I ever have with the ENglish. I get a little annoyed sometimes by too much self congratulation by the Irish (you’ll note my first post on this thread was about the 2004 citizenship referendum, not Ireland’s proudest moment). I just couldn’t let stand a comment as stupid as that saying the Irish should be grateful to the country that invaded it and suppressed its culture and language for saving it from invasion and suppression of its culture and language. I’ve spent too long going down this rabbit hole now!

Wolfgirll do you have anything at all to back up the assertion that Ireland remained neutral because “they didn’t want to pick the wrong side”? Anything? Any academic article? Even an opinion piece?

Yeah, I'd like to see this too, as it seems like she has just decided this herself and is now stating it as fact. Just a few moments thought about what had been happening in Ireland in the years leading up to WW2 would be enough to realise that it was not a case of simply 'they didn't want to pick the wrong side'.

I just couldn’t let stand a comment as stupid as that saying the Irish should be grateful to the country that invaded it and suppressed its culture and language for saving it from invasion and suppression of its culture and language.

Yeah the stupidity is unbelievable really isn't it!

@Bedroomdilemma

The minister for external affairs in Ireland said at the time:

… small nations like Ireland do not and cannot assume a role as defenders of just causes except [their] own ... Existence of our own people comes before all other considerations … no government has the right to court certain destruction for its people; they have to take the only chance of survival and stay out.

Make of that what you will. But given the Nazis would certainly have invaded Ireland given the opportunity, one can assume Ireland chose neutrality that in such an event they stood the best chance of survival. Whilst hoping the British and other Allies would be able to defeat them.

Make of that what you will. But given the Nazis would certainly have invaded Ireland given the opportunity, one can assume Ireland chose neutrality that in such an event they stood the best chance of survival. Whilst hoping the British and other Allies would be able to defeat them.

What do you mean 'the best chance of survival'? Why are you even comparing Ireland, a tiny country that was still trying to recover economically and socially from civil war, a war whose origins had ravaged the country for centuries, to Britain, one of the most powerful countries in the world? Britain had its finger in all sorts of pies at the time, Ireland was just one of them.

And even Britain, one of the worlds superpowers, had tried to do everything to avoid another war - they had already allowed the Nazis to occupy parts of Eastern Europe.

Even the big dicked US of A was neutral until the attack on Pearl Harbour.

@Bassettgirl

Hmm I'm not sure, perhaps 'most' but there definitely a very large percentage of British people who privately do not consider people with foreign parents to be British. When I grew up in England I was considered Irish by all my friends, their parents, teachers, neighbours etc. I obviously embraced being Irish back then, but everyone knew who my parents were so it made sense to be identified as Irish.

Infact I can't recall hardly anyone calling me British or English ever.

@KingFredsTache

All that comes to mind about your last post is glass houses and stones.

Whatever the situation, in your view, Ireland is the righteous victim and the rest of the world is wrong.

@Cybercubed

Odd. As a Catholic in England I know many, many people of Irish descent, but none of them call themselves Irish

@Wolfgirrl you'd start an argument in an empty room.

This thread has pissed me right off.

@Wolfgirrl

I was young back then, it was forced on me! My parents were the type who would never have let me wear a England shirt in the house lol! To be fair I think my parents both regret that now recognising it was a bit OTT and that I should have had a free choice but they desperately wanted to keep me Irish back then. Like a lot of 2nd gen Irish kids some of us didn't have a say in our identity.

@JaneJeffer

Click off it then.

@Cybercubed

Fair enough! I find it odd though, if they really wanted you to have an Irish identity, why didnt they move back there?

Bossy as well @Wolfgirrl

Surely it is the logical thing to do? I enjoy a heated debate but if I didnt, I would simply click off it.

@Wolfgirrl

I think the plan was to move back before I started school but Dad couldn't get work in Ireland so it ended up being till I was aged 14 by then my accent had already properly developed and has stuck since. Hence why I'm now seen as English by everyone here.

You don't enjoy debate. You enjoy your own viewpoint.

Mam is Irish, her parents were alcoholics and she ran away to Liverpool when she was 16. Most people in Liverpool (and a large amount of Mancunians too) are of Irish descent, including my Dad. That's how I'd describe myself, of Irish descent. I was lucky enough to have my Uncle Manus, who would visit regularly bearing gifts of Galtee cheese and Erin Country veg packet soup. Once, he brought me a copy of Peig and told me that he and Mam had to suffer it as teenagers, it was only right that I should too.

@JaneJeffer and the other posters here don't?

I think the reason you're pissed off is because for once, Ireland's own failings are being raked over and you're simply not used to it.

You've just proved my point

Good you can go back to feeling righteous!

There's your projected opinion again!

What have I said in this thread that is projection?

I like what a couple of kids said to me that I knew via my kids clubs and schools - I'm half welsh, half french and full English
1 welsh parent 1 french parent and born and raised in England

I think it's where you're born and raised. Your parents are Irish but you are British with Irish blood or heritage.

Where I live there is a very large Irish community and most people seem to have an Irish granny at least.

I don't know anybody who wouldn't consider somebody born and bred here but with Irish parents to not be British/English??

I don't see Ireland's neutrality as a failing! I see it as something I'm immensely proud of. Nowadays, Shannon airport is used for refuelling for US aircraft going into Iraq and the middle East. There are those who vehemently oppose this as they see it as compromising our neutrality, but I guess I suppose I am not sure what way I see it. I'm not convinced about most of the middle eastern wars by the US in recent times, so I'd ideally like that Ireland stayed the fuck out of it, but at the same time, if the US forces need to re-fuel, I wouldn't deny them that either. It's a tough one.

We're in a unique location, the most western coast in the Atlantic, English speaking, modern, very technologically advanced etc. We're tiny though so have no business getting ourselves involved in international wars. Money (or lack of it) has lead to some of ours signing up to fight for Her Maj, but it wouldn't be typical. If someone needs to do that to feed their family, I can't judge them either.

I strongly support our position of being neutral.

Btw OP I'd describe you as half Irish.