Lose a stone in 21 days - is anyone watching?

[Cheeseandlobster]

It just seems like a shameless plug to make Michael Mosley money.

Lots of chat without science "this is good for your erm mental and physical health". Weird comments including that how long you can stand on 1 leg with your eyes shut is reflective of your life expectancy. Showing off how many push ups he can do. And getting his whole family in on it. I usually enjoy programmes like this but not sure about this one.

Anyone else?

@Hammer12

Best diet = eat what your grandmother ate

Yes I agree actually! They never had all the processed stuff we do now.

Yeah, that might work.

Except when your grandparents were farmers/agricultural workers. Massive calorie intake, great food, all cooked from scratch (except tinned meat, fish and vegetables, due to the lack of year round polytunnels), tons of food at every meal, loads of bread, cake and steamed puddings, jams, preserves, etc, etc. Means I'm a great cook, as I can't stand all the 'processed stuff we have now' (except frozen vegetables, meat, fish, pulses, etc), but I'm also a fat great cook.

This daily intake being punted out purely because it sounds a bit snappier than the fast 1200, probably just about represented a single meal when they were eating lightly.

Not to mention that some of our grandparents were chronically malnourished - one of my grandfathers went into WWI as a 17 year old and got the first pair of boots he'd ever owned and had never had as much to eat as he did when in France - even the Germans fed him better than he had ever been fed before when he ended up in a POW camp. And then there was the 1930s where many starved, so that rationing actually improved their health because it was more than they'd ever had before. Both of which were massive concerns that led to the formation of the Welfare State, free school meals, benefits, medical treatment, etc, etc, as a hungry population was one ripe for revolution.

There are reasons why height is an indication of social class (and the average height of men working in Whitehall is so different to other civil service locations). Historical nutrition.

Agree it depends on what your grandparents ate. I think it is just a phrase to suggest there was less ultra processed foods in the past and so that might be something to copy.
My grandparents were all farmers and whilst poor they ate fresh veg etc... They did have high fat diets though. 3 out of 4 of my grandparents lived to very old age. They all smoked and drank and had copious amounts of tea.

@Horsemad

Didn't see the programme but I've heard the thing about length of time standing one one leg being indicative of lifespan.

If that is the case I better start saving for my funeral as i can’t do this at all.

I do like Michael Moseley and I have watched all his programs. There is science behind this but the diet is not for everyone. I realise it is triggering for people with an eating disorder but it is clear that this is not for them. It is for people who are very overweight.

I was a bit alarmed by the ketosticks as I remember them from when I had hyperemersis.

I agree the show is tedious - possibly because of filming restrictions in lockdown.

But the book (Fast 800) goes into all the science properly and seems sensible. Lots of fish, nuts, olive oil, vegetables at every meal, the Mediterranean style diet.

I’ve been following it for two weeks, including a day completely off when I ate out, and have lost 13lb so far. I haven’t felt hungry due to the very filling recipes in the book. There’s no need to buy anything except the book (or borrow it from the library.) I saw my mum today (who doesn’t know I’m on the diet) and she said I looked glowing.

After week three I’ll go to doing the 800 cals just two days a week, and doing food based around the Mediterranean diet, which will be sustainable longer term.

I’m not overweight thankfully but even if I was I wouldn’t give up bananas or any other fruit and veg. Eat a rainbow, get all the nutrients you can.

I did enjoy looking at his house too. He has colour coded his books.

@Hammer12

There is a lot of good science behind it try reading “Life without Diabetes” by Dr Roy Taylor. Dr Taylor is a practising specialist in diabetes in the North East and has a strong research background in this field.

@gassylady do you know if it says anything about high fat?

I am currently doing Michael Mosley low carb/keto diet but it says you need to eat foods high in fat which I am really struggling with as it's so different to anything I've done before and sounds wrong - double cream!!
I have cut out most carbs apart from vegetables and a few berries but in 5 weeks I have only lost 2lb overall so I am wondering if you NEED to eat high fats?

Natural fats are generally good for you, they also provide nutrition without giving you an insulin spike (which tells your body to make fat) as well as making you feel fuller.

If you're hungry and eat 200 calories of sugary or processed carbs the chances are you'll feel even more hungry a very short time later. If you eat 200 calories of fat (e.g. cheese) instead I bet you'll not feel hungry for ages afterwards.

@Leflic haha that's really interesting and makes so much sense! If only there were more people like you who say the truth instead of trying to make money from it!

If you're hungry and eat 200 calories of sugary or processed carbs the chances are you'll feel even more hungry a very short time later. If you eat 200 calories of fat (e.g. cheese) instead I bet you'll not feel hungry for ages afterwards.

This makes a lot of sense. Usually I am really hungry when I diet but i've been allowing myself things like a bit of cheese or greek yoghrt (which I've always avoided) and I'm not hungry at all.

Hanmer have you added in intermittent fasting? The body needs a good chunk of time where it’s not digesting to fat burn. You want to be doing 16:8 at a minimum.

justanotherneighinparadise

Since lockdown, I have been usually having two meals a day. One a late breakfast/early lunch and then dinner. I try not to have any snacks after dinner but if I do it is a handful of blueberries or a cheese babybell.
I think I will start having my dinner earlier and not snacking after it.

Do you know if you are allowed tea or coffee if you are fasting?
I love having a coffee as soon as I wake up! I have sweetners and not sugar - I'm not sure if that's good or bad lol

@Hammer12

justanotherneighinparadise

Since lockdown, I have been usually having two meals a day. One a late breakfast/early lunch and then dinner. I try not to have any snacks after dinner but if I do it is a handful of blueberries or a cheese babybell.
I think I will start having my dinner earlier and not snacking after it.

Do you know if you are allowed tea or coffee if you are fasting?
I love having a coffee as soon as I wake up! I have sweetners and not sugar - I'm not sure if that's good or bad lol

Black tea or coffee is best when fasting. You should really avoid sweeteners outside your eating window as although they aren't sugar they taste sweet which triggers insulin production.

Black tea or coffee is best when fasting. You should really avoid sweeteners outside your eating window as although they aren't sugar they taste sweet which triggers insulin production.

Thank you so much!

We should all remember that he is a TV presenter, not a doctor. He studied medicine to become a psychiatrist but actually never practiced as a doctor. His wife is a GP. I’d take their expert knowledge on diets with a pinch of salt. His 5:2 diet triggered a binge eating disorder for me so I am a bit wary.

800 cals is too low for nearly all people. Yes, fine if you’re having life saving surgery and urgently need to shrink your liver but most obese people can eat quite a bit and still lose a lot of weight. Why not put them on a low carb diet where they can eat 1500 cals? Anything low carb would lower blood sugar. Why does it have to be 800? Apart from one of the participants (Sharika), they aren’t morbidly obese and the argument that they need to immediately drastically reduce body weight doesn’t apply. One of them has a BMI of 27 and basically just needs to cut out the junk and exercise and maybe eat at a small deficit. The other three are class 1 obese with a BMI of between 30 and 35 which again doesn’t require a drastic crash diet and they’d see brilliant results on a reduced carb diet where they could eat more food. At the moment they’re feeling dizzy and faint and steeling themselves to get through 21 days. My guess is that they will go back to eating their old ways after that.

Oh and the smugness of the whole Mosley family is quite annoying.

Diets fail because people find a way around them, don’t lose much and then can’t be bothered anymore. This one is quick. It changes your mindset, there’s no capacity to cheat.

This one is similar in basis to things like lighter life and Cambridge which, although shake based, work on the basis of eating very low calories and going into ketosis to burn fat. Those diets have an appalling success rate. Yes, the weight comes off quickly but it goes straight back in again, often in greater quantities than it came off. You only need to google the founder of lighter life to see how ‘successful’ it is. I think the issue is that it doesn’t change your mindset whatsoever. Why would it? Most of us can grit our teeth and endure a horrible diet for a short period but we can’t do it forever. This is a diet where, if you ate just one thing off-plan, it would throw you out of ketosis and ruin a lot of your progress.

Despite Dr Michael’s claims that he was previously so fat, photos demonstrate that this wasn’t the case at all. He was at max about a stone overweight due to eating and drinking a bit too much. His wife has never had a weight problem. Many buying his book will be people with a very deeply disordered relationship to food who abuse it by bingeing to control their emotions. Someone who has been a little overweight but doesn’t have their life controlled by food doesn’t understand the complex reasons why a person becomes say 10 stone overweight. It might seem super easy to just ‘eat less move more’ but it’s extremely difficult in reality for many people.

We should all remember that he is a TV presenter, not a doctor. He studied medicine to become a psychiatrist but actually never practiced as a doctor.

He has a doctorate which means he can research the evidence as much as any practicing GP or surgeon. I’m not sure working doctors are any better qualified with diet than anyone else’s since presumably they have follow NHS guidance, which is research based. By people like Mosley.

He doesn’t have a doctorate, he has an undergraduate medical degree which entitles the holder to the title doctor. I wouldn’t say a GP is a great person to give dietary advice either as MM himself said that a medicine degree does not really touch on nutrition. Neither he nor his wife have conducted any scientific research in this area. They have written a book that they are trying to sell. Yes, having a medical background undoubtedly helps in understanding studies and literature that you read but that’s about it. He’s never worked as a doctor and he did his degree 30 years ago.

Shedtheload
Oh dear I did say I would shut up! But I think comparing a shake based or packaged meal plan with a real food is disingenuous.

You’re right , firstly there’s the diet to lose the excess fat ( Ketosis). Secondly, keeping it off which means less calories than when you used to be fat.
I found by the time I’d lost the 2 stone I was used to not snacking, not having “unlimited foods” and eating nutritious real food rather than milkshake drinks and bars.

The hard truth is, to keep weight off you do have to eat less than you do when you’re fat. Whatever diet you lose weight with.

I agree that reasons people over eat are emotional but they will still need to eat differently. Cutting the sugar really helps mentally to reduce the appetite and physically to reduce the calories.
You can retrain your emotional eating side by practisIng better habits, in the same way overeating became away of life.

I honestly don't see how a diet which encourages people to eat meat, fish and veg and stay away from cake can be bad. It's about eating real food more than processed, which we all know isn't the best for us. I think society has got disordered eating because we've been bombarded with artificial 'food' and most of us buy it for ease and convenience and because we don't really know quite how bad a lot of it is. And it's everywhere! It's a challenge not to buy it, unless you are a good cook with lots of ideas and time.
If we (society) hadn't messed ourselves up by eating tons of unnatural 'food' then we'd probably be able to eat potatoes etc without causing harm because they'd be part of a natural diet.
I've done calorie controlled diets where I ate 1200 calories per day of whatever I wanted and I lost a lot of weight. But it didn't do anything to change my desire to eat 3bars of chocolate every day. And I was hungry for a year, while I did it. And I put all the weight back on when I had a baby and stopped dieting.
I've accepted that I've got to be careful forever. At least this diet seems to reduce hunger and break sugar cravings and it does have health benefits .

Shedtheload
So you’re saying what? As a intelligent human capable of getting a medical degree and a professional journalist reporting on current research on diet he’s not qualified to write a book ? The diet isn’t his idea - he’s just written the hook that others can follow.

I’ve been on diets. I’ve lost weight. Mostly my face and boobs.This is the only one that I lost by belly fat on. Quickly. And kept it off. Lockdown has changed my eating. The weights gone on but it’s really easy to see why and I know it’s pretty easy to sort out.

Those diets have an appalling success rate.

I've been reading this thread and trying to find a study I read some time ago in which, of a sample size in the thousands, the success rates of long term weight loss and maintenance were approx 3% across all types of diet and just 1% for keto-type diets - where large amounts of weight loss was involved.

I am sure I read it but am struggling to refind it!

@MrsHuntGeneNotJeremyObviously - you're so right about the acceptance about being careful forever. It's a massive mindset shift and one I'm still getting my head around. There is no point in only changing my diet temporarily, because of course I'll get fat again. I have to make a permanent change. For me, that's intermittent fasting.

A lot of people say "I'll do this to lose weight as it's worked before" without really analysing why the weight has come back on. That's why diets don't work. You need to eat well forever, not just for a few weeks.

I like Michael Moseley's approach because you get the motivation of losing a lot of weight quickly, you learn it's ok to be hungry again and he gives you a plan for maintenance.

There's a big difference in being very heavily restricted on the same calories of real foods and replacement shakes/ bars.

I find 5:2 useful and thinking about how to sate yourself, on real food on those restricted days is quite informative. Admittedly I haven't done it this year because I was struggling with the cold and wet Jan to March, then having too much time on my hands while stuck in the house with ravenous children is not ideal. I do better on days when I'm busy and take myself out and about and away from temptation. Ultimately that's on me and my mindset and that's life.

Resetting your body on naturally low sugar foods, and filling up with fibre, protien and natural fats is at least as good advice as any out there. The key point of any weight loss is the point where target has been reached, and the main faliure is relaxing back into old habits. Losing the weight on a nutritious diet is the best chance of modifying a lifestyle for long term health management.

My issue is not with the food itself- it’s with the extreme restriction. If they could have twice the number of calories that would be good and I can’t see a good reason why they can’t. I don’t think MM can either and he has admitted that his initial advice about 500 cals on 5:2 wasn’t right and that people who follow it should eat 800 cals a day on 2 days. I suspect that he might change his mind over time with the BSD.

It is true that all diets have a poor success rate. Low carb is no different. The only thing that seems to work is adopting a healthy and active lifestyle long term. This is a short term crash diet which doesn’t do that.

Also, it’s not disingenuous to compare it to shake diets. The science that MM cites to back up this diet is actually based on meal replacement shakes. That’s what the NHS tends to prescribe when they do prescribe a very low calorie diet. The fact that these people are eating real food doesn’t make a huge deal of difference. I still maintain that it doesn’t teach you healthy habits. You had one woman crying that she wants to have a normal relationship with food and the response is to put her on a crash diet where she’s having dizzy spells. I’m sure that will work out well.

I also wouldn’t have had so much of an issue had the subjects been super morbidly obese where it was essential to reduce their body mass immediately in case they had a heart attack or to prepare them for surgery. Apart from one of them, none of them have more than about 3 stone or so to lose to reach a relatively healthy weight. Why do they need such drastic intervention? (Obviously the answer is that it wouldn’t make such good TV).

It’s easier to lose weight that has recently been gained than it is to lose weight that’s been on the body for years. So I guess we could say the 21 day diet was to reverse the recent lockdown weight and then it wouldn’t be so strict thereafter.

All I know is that for me this WOE works. I feel better in it, the weight is coming off and I’m not hungry. The science behind low carb is plentiful and data is being collected all the time. It is a lifestyle change though, there’s no denying that. I don’t drink so it’s easy for me to not drink. I’m also not fussed about bread or cake or sweets. I don’t have takeaways. My life hasn’t changed that much accept I now eat in a small eating window and fast the rest of the time.