Help! I don't want to pay FIL's bills!

[Blurp]

The background: DH has 3 siblings who live nearby. MIL died a few years ago, so FIL lives alone in the house DH grew up in. They describe themselves as "very close" and have always gone to FIL's twice a week for dinner (just the siblings and their kids, not partners). When MIL was alive, she cooked; since her death, they take it in turns to cook, so DH cooks once every other week. This costs about £25 each time, so about £50 per month.

FIL has recently retired. He has absolutely no savings (MIL was a HUGE spender and just spent it all), and gets only a state pension. He's realised that he can't afford to pay for all the bills. The house has 6 bedrooms, so it's huge, expensive Council tax, expensive to heat etc.

In my head, the solution is that he needs to move somewhere smaller and more manageable. However, DH & siblings are not in favour of this because then they wouldn't be able to go round all at once, certainly not twice a week.

His brother has suggested that they all chip in each month to cover the bills - about £50 each. So including the cost of cooking once a fortnight, we'd be forking out about £100 a month for this.

We could afford it, but we'd be sacrificing other things. For instance, we'd like to move to a bigger house (the kids would love some outdoor space). But that would be very tight financially if we had this extra money to pay each month. We'd also like to start saving some money for the kids each month too - £25 each would build up to a decent amount.

DH agrees with me in principle, but is being put under pressure by his siblings. He said he'd feel bad continuing to go to dinner twice a week if he wasn't paying his share. But he also doesn't want FIL to have to move, thereby possibly meaning that they can no longer all visit together.

There was a vague suggestion at one stage that if FIL didn't have enough space, they'd all take it in turns to go round each others' houses, so we'd host every other week. This won't work because both me and one of the other siblings partners work from home and it would be too disruptive (and anyway, I don't really want a big crowd of people in the house once a fortnight). Again, I feel like I'm getting in the way of the plans.

Any suggestions? Is it unfair of me to say no to us paying money to FIL each month? Or is it reasonable to expect him to live within his means, even if that means moving house?

It is very unrealistic for him to live in a 6 bed house by himself. You're discussing the problem of him not being able to afford the bills, but there is more to it than that. How is going to maintain such a large home? Will He hire a cleaner? Presumably not, if money is so tight. It sounds like he doesn't have much of a pension to speak of. And what happens when he can't handle stairs anymore? It comes to us all eventually, assuming we are lucky enough to live that long.

I can understand your father not to wanting to let the house go - it's not about the luxury. He just wants that familiarity. His wife is still in that house, in a way, and his children all meet there regularly. He won't want to give all that up. But sadly this is what happens when your spouse passes away. Things change. You have to make adjustments and try and get used to a new normal.

The most sensible option is for your FIL to downsize into something more affordable. Preferably a bungalow so that he won't have to move again later on. Assuming the mortgage is paid up he should have a decent pot of money left over to pay his bills and any services he needs.

What does FIL want to do? It sounds as if the brothers are trying to make lots of decisions but if he has only just retired then surely he should be making those decisions himself.

What do the other wives say?
Twice a week is a big chunk of family time they are using up.
How old is fil? He has to downsize, it’s the only logical answer.
Maybe give him time to come round to the idea if mil has only just died.
But you have to say no.

Insane... who is planning on cleaning this bloody house? Also, it becomes a falls risk, etc as he ages. Nope. I would refuse to facilitate this nonsense. They are holding onto the past for what exactly? Maybe he will be happier somewhere more suitable.

Could your DH and his siblings set up formal loan arrangements with your FIL so that they lend him the money to meet his bills instead of giving it to him.

They could secure the loans on the property so that when he dies or the property has to be sold to fund care home fees they all get the loans repaid.

It may well appeal to FIL as it does mean that there'll be less available to be taken by the state to fund his care and more to pass on to his children , even if it is really just repaying the money they have lent him to enable to remain in the family home for the time being.

@UpperLowercaseSymbolNumber

They are being too black and white. For them to continue going around he just needs to have room for a table that fits 5 people around. So the options aren’t merely a) maintain status quo or b) never have a family meal again. A much smaller property with a decent sized kitchen or lounge would work perfectly well.

This is absolutely the solution. A 2- or 3-bed with a big open plan kitchen/living room would be perfect.

So, you are family enough to your DH's family to sacrifice getting a house with a garden for your DC and putting money away for them, but not family enough to be included in meals with them all.

I'd be saying "I'm not family, so I am not paying for that".

I think your DH and his siblings do not want their 6-bed inheritance wittered away.

Mystified. I have a 4 bed house and plenty of room for dhs side of the family to come around and have lunch - All 20 of them. Is their usual dinner practice to each pick a bedroom, sit and eat in it while shouting out to the others? Because it’s true that would be hard to replicate if he downsized.

I wondered if it was about their inheritance too @RandomStupidName but depending on how old fil is they may have a long wait.

They all sound batshit and your a saint for putting up with it so far.

Very odd indeed.

He needs to downsize, of course. Find a house with a big room - or build one on.

Six bedrooms, one bloke?

Nutsoid.

He could downsize and release tons of equity!

He could buy a really lovely bungalow {they do exist} and have hundreds of thousands to live off.

But I expect all the adult children will be horrified at selling ''the family home''.

He definitely needs to downsize. I have a 3 bed with open plan downstairs and it has ample space for entertaining. The number of bedrooms isn't important if they are staying over.

Downsize. He has dinner at each house once a week on rotation. Get together for normal big family gatherings. Milestone birthdays, Christmas etc.

Wow. Weirdest dynamic! So obviously the thing to do is downsize and if there's no room for family meals go out once a month or get a takeaway in which doesn't involve a dining room

Trouble is DH is entrench one this bullying and enabling culture and I think he's going to find it very difficult to extricate himself from it

What's the answer - the realistic answer!?

I actually can't think of one where either you, OP or DH is going to be unhappy

Families are a bloody nuisance sometimes

PS - The house will have to be sold if FIL needs to go into a nursing home in the future. Better to get it sold and split the proceeds between you all now, and hope he'll be ok for 7 years.

*aren't staying over

If FiL has only just retired, he could be in that house for another thirty years. If he can't afford the most basic bills how will he afford to maintain the property? He needs to sell.

I would imagine your DH and his siblings are disappointed to see their only inheritance sold and the proceeds spent on living costs.

I don’t think it’s a weird dynamic, I think it sounds lovely 😊

Yes ideally he downsizes to a 2 bed with a big kitchen dinner, he may not be ready yet but after a few months of financially struggling he may see sense.

Or if he doesn’t have a mortgage he could remortgage and % and get a chunk of cash... my elderly neighbour did this I can’t quite remember how it works... I think when she dies the chuck goes back to the bank with some interest?

There comes a time when even the most loved family home has to be sold, frankly. It sounds like they are not there yet.

He needs good financial advice, not from family, to help him come to that decision.

Obviously it's lovely that he has his family around so often and he probably overestimates the sentimental value to children have with the house.

I would, delicately, set a time limit, while finances are worked out, so contribute for the next six months or year and then work out a plan for the rest of his life.

Just have FIL round for dinner on a rota system to each of the siblings instead. FIL never has to cook dinner and one extra space at a table is doable

FIL needs to live within his means and your in-laws can’t be expecting you to work to pay

FIL needs to downsize to release capital or otherwise create an income from his 6 bed house.

I'm not sure about twice a week, but I think it's reasonable for the siblings to host at home once a month each, I'm not really sure why you working from home prevents that, you must have evenings or weekends off?

Depending on the value of the house, fils age and general health, I might pay it. From the pragmatic point of view that cheap council care homes are really not very nice and it could be very handy to have a large asset waiting to be sold in the face of a bill for £1.5k per week... I'd rather chip in £50 per month now, than (be pressured for, because it sounds like you will be) £1000 pm down the line. I doubt very much that enough of the capital of the house will remain to pay for this if it's sold now.

I’m still unclear as to why the dinner can’t be held at others’ houses in rotation. Presumably you can arrange your work not to be working from home at that time, or just work from home upstairs and swallow a little disruption? It would only be at yours once a fortnight.

I'm going to speak from bitter experience here - quite apart from the issues you've raised, in the foreseeable future it's highly likely that FIL will find that a big 6 bedroom house is far too much to manage by himself.

I have an elderly relative living in her own home, of similar proportions. I have no double that she would be able to manage with less practical help if she wasn't rattling around in a house that's about three times larger than she actually needs. There's rooms that have fallen out of use, haven't been used for a decade and never will be by my relative - but it also means that getting from A to B (e.g. kitchen to bathroom) within the house is far further and hence more effort than it needs to be.

Trust me when I say that these little things really matter for someone in their 90s - but she's now so old and frail that downsizing would kill her.

How old is FIL, and is he capable of recognising that there will come a point where a bungalow (or even a 3 bed semi) with local shops will be a much more practical option? As someone mentioned upthread, with the capital released from downsizing, it's entirely feasible to think about extending a house to give a lovely big kitchen / diner - perhaps something with bifold doors looking out onto the garden, or whatever appeals.

If he has no savings and gets only a basic pension then he may be eligible for pension credit and he shouldn't have to pay council tax either. Use a benefit checker online.